Do you actually believe the friendzone is real?

[Twalli]

Despite what you may think, opposite gender friends do not only agree to become your friend because they find you attractive. They might genuinely want to be a friend. So even if all your opposite gender friends are people you want to date, that isn't necessarily the case for them. An attractive friend who likes you too will agree to go out with you. You won't be friend zoned if your friend is interested in you when you ask them out. Friend zoning is only when the sexual attraction is one sided. You may be friends for years, neither willing to take the first step, but if you take the initiative and your friend is sexually interested in you, they'll want to date you too.

Updates

4 mo

Also, depending on the time at which you ask them out, their views on dating you might change. Don't continually ask them out, but if they start showing more interest in you a while after rejecting you, two things may have happened. 1) They never thought of you that way and said no because they were caught off guard and needed to consider if they wanted to date you. 2) They didn't want to then, but as you both change and matured, their feelings towards you did too.

[blueonblack22]

I can’t believe a man is saying this. The bottom line is this: Attraction is not a choice but respect is.

Scenario #1: How it should be

Guy meets a girl he finds attractive. She is on the fence about him. He asks her out on a date and she agrees.

He takes her out to a nice dinner but during the conversation and interaction she decides that while the guy is pleasant she is not attracted to him. However she on stays on topic and engages in the conversation he leads. However she does not drop insulting “shit hints” that she’s not interested (e. g. talks and complains about her ex bfs).

The waiter comes around with the bill. She genuinely offers to split the bill. He insists on paying how however since the date was his idea.

A few days later he texts her up. They chat for a while and he then asks her on a second date. However she responds with something along the following “Hey I got to he honest. You are good guy but the truth is I am not interested. I hope we can stay friendly though (friendly is the same thing as friends). But I am telling you this out of respect.”

The guy might get angry/upset at the outcome but not at her. He knows exactly where he stands and he is thankful about that. He feels respected that she was honest with him. Also glad she didn’t try to squeeze any free favors out him. When he runs into her again he’s friendly and maybe has small talk. A part of him much still stings bit but he respects her because she respected him. Sometimes a real friendship can occur later particularly if wasn’t overly attracted to her to begin with.

In real life I remained long time friends with one woman who rejected me the right way here. It was because she respected me.

Scenario 2: How the “friendzone” typically happens

Scenario 2 starts off like Scenario 1 but with one major key difference. The woman has no real respect for the man but calls him “a friend” regardless. She does this by:

• Accepting the paid for date as “hanging out” and not an official date in her mind.
• She drops “shit hints” that she isn’t interested in him. This is usually by talking and complaining about her ex bfs.
• She gives him sneaky compliments about his intelligence, kindness, sense of humor but never compliments his looks. She often calls him “a nice guy”
• She plays dumb to the strong hints in the body language and eye contact when she’s around him.
• She goes through the motions to pay her half on dare (s) but often she really expecting him to pay for everything.
• She acts confident around the guy because she isn’t worried about what he thinks around her. People are usually at least semi nervous around people they feel attracted to.
• When he texts her later she will be slow to respond and will continue to play dumb. She might agree to hang out again and flake later.
• She will barely thank him (if at all) for what he did for her earlier.
• Most importantly she will never flat out tell him she’s not interested. She knows if she does then the attention might go away and she wants him around as a resource.
• She usually like his social media posts as a way to “keep him in her in her orbit”.

Anyway scenario 2 is my definition of the friendzone (and if absolutely does exist). The woman plays dumb because she sees the guy as resource not a real man she respects. While she is not at fault for not feeling attracted to him or she also decides to have no real respect for him. She doesn’t care if her bullshit games see aggravating him. Again respect is a decision and she none for him. But she sees him as a resource she can exploit for her own selfish ends. Also again will always conveniently refer to him “as a friend”.

Anyway if you want to be a self torturing idiot and enable that bs with women then be my guest. But seriously what exactly can a woman (who a man feels attracted to) offer a man in a ”friendship”. Her mere presence? Her “advice”. She will almost always benefit from that friendship and eat up effort, time, money and heart. He’s a tool to her

But again if you don’t mind being exploited in scenario 2 then feel free. But I got too much self respect for that friendzone bullshit. And I rather be alone and have my self respect vs being exploited by a selfish pos woman who has no respect for me.

[CalmUntilAbused]

I couldn't really phrase it better. I might add that it's about respect and responsibility, as some irresponsible people might fail to show this kind of respect not out of malice, but out of inability to face the reality and be honest.

[blueonblack22]

@CalmUntilAbused one correction “friendly is NOT the same thing as friends”.

[blueonblack22]

@CalmUntilAbused every girl who friendzoned me did at least 3 of the top red flags. The number one red flag is when they talk and complain about exes. Close second is when they confidently refer to you “as a friend”.

It’s fine when a woman isn’t interested in dating. It can be heartbreaking but there is nothing that can be done about.

But HOW she handles it is a different story. And exploited the guy because she knows he’s not thinking clearly is the exact definition of the friéndzone to me.

[CalmUntilAbused]

What do You mean by "when they confidently refer to you "as a friend" "? If it is a true friendship (working both ways, not just the man providing for the woman), it's fine to call it a friendship. However (and I think that's what You meant), if she goes out of her way to show off that You are "just" her friend, that would be a true red flag.

Otherwise, I totally agree with You. Playing with the man's emotions to tie him down and exploit him is exactly what friendzone is.

[blueonblack22]

@CalmUntilAbused I mean exactly what you described in your first paragraph. You can hear it in her tone of voice. This especially true if a woman calls a man “her best friend” when she’s only known him for a short amount of time. That’s like nails on chalkboard. No straight man will EVER refer to a woman he’s interested in as his “best friend” unless she’s a long time girlfriend or their married.

The thing is from an evolutionary standpoint women typically feel a lot less shame and guilt about taking hand outs from men. Subconsciously they are wired to expect men to provide and protect them. They often do this crap and don’t even realize it.

I give young women in their late teens and early 20s a tiny bit of leeway (it’s still horrible though) for doing this to guys.

But when a grown ass woman over 30 does this it’s disgusting. I had a woman who was a year older then me try to pull this bullshit on me 4 years ago.

There were plenty of red flags (at least half the list above) but ironically I gave her more leeway then I would give a younger woman. I thought she would know better to do that crap. I might be nice but I am not stupid. I’ve been around the block a few times on that crap.

Anyway I called her out on it and cut her off for good. Long story but she (subtlety) insulted me in front of my family. She really blew this out of the water. She’s not the only one obviously but that one was so blatant I couldn’t believe what I saw and heard.

It’s like a grown man over 35 who lies through his teeth to seduce women around his age just to be a manwhore. If he is 25 and doing that is wrong but to be expected. But doing that at 35+?

Anyway some older women literally act this way because it makes them “feel younger”. It’s ridiculous. And it IS the friendzone and the friéndzone definitely exists.

[sawno]

Yes, been in it before after I missed the boat in getting a girl. I had asked her one week after she fell head over heels for a jerk. I knew it wouldn't last, so I was the comfort friend she used for company and a shoulder to cry on. When she broke up with him I knew it was my turn, we had been great friends and she had found me interesting before so it was obvious. I'd finally get the girl I wanted for so long.

Except of course she went with yet another guy and that thought me a valuable life lesson that if she truly wanted me she'd have picked me the first time round. Not going to make the mistake again.

[mandyfire98]

I think if a guy or girl is only becoming friends with someone because they think they have a chance at getting in their pants then that's deceptive and toxic.

For guys who were friends and along the way they developed feelings, then that's always unfortunate because it's only going to be one sided most of the time.
That might be considered what's called the friendzone but I don't think that happens anywhere near what people think.

I think most cases of "friendzoning" is guys that are trying to hookup and try to become friends with women to get closer. Their ultimate goal is getting with her first, the friendship is not as important to them.

I have guy friends who are good friends of mine. They are very attractive, they have said in a few instances over the years that they think I'm attractive. But we don't have feelings for each other at all. They wouldn't date me if we were both single. It would be too weird for anybody involved. People can see attraction in others and not have feelings.

[Twalli]

Of course

[MzAsh]

This term is used as a means for finding fault with a woman who doesn’t return a man’s romantic or sexual interest. This is NOT the friend zone.

[CalmUntilAbused]

That's a simplification. It's not about the rejection itself, it's about tying the man down, giving mixed signals, being superficially friendly towards him while he's putting his all into the friendship, generally giving hope. Basically, if You reject a man and tell him something along the lines of: "Let's just be friends", You should actually behave like a friend would, and it would be best if You were able to find him a girl who would actually love him "this way". Of course, that's only if You actually know him a bit better, if it's about rejecting random men on the street, there are no such obligations.

[MzAsh]

I understand. But the way I see it, a man can only be tied down if he allows it. Don’t do anything you’re not comfortable with. Also, it’s not her responsibility to find him a mate. I was put in this position a lot too. I found it weird because I’m an introvert and don’t socialize a whole lot. No, I don’t know any single girlfriends. 🤣 Do the work.

[DextroShade]

I don't fault the woman, I fault the man who lets himself be used in such a fashion. Just like I fault the woman who complains that Chad only wants to fuck and never take her seriously.

[CalmUntilAbused]

@MzAsh

I wish it was this simple, and I mean it for all the aspects You mentioned.

The problem is, men are human and they do have feelings, but they sometimes appear to have serious trouble sorting them out. Thus, playing with those feelings, which is so common in friendzone scenarios that it basically constitutes friendzone, can lock them down in a constant effort to decipher these feelings. This wicked act of giving false hope is what is aimed at tying men down to be used as tools and ATMs. It is possible to break through this trap, but doing so changes the whole perception of reality (it's probably how most of the MGTOW are born). And while it's not a female friend's responsibility to find her male friend a girlfriend (sorry, I might have written it in a misleading way), at least helping him in doing so is beneficial for both parties, as if he can find a girlfriend, it ends any romantic feelings that might be felt by him towards the female friend, clearing up the atmosphere and making the friendship a stable one. And as women apparently understand other women and their needs, female help while looking for a girlfriend would be important, especially for those who are totally new to this aspect of life.

Having said that, I do understand this kind of help is basically impossible in Your case (and frankly, I'm totally with You on the withdrawal from wider society).

[ChiTown33]

@DextroShade I agree man except it is NOT that simple. Knowing how women think most of the time it takes more than just a handsome face to attract her. In other words it takes a a guy with a bit of a personality as well in a lot of cases. So it takes some effort on the guys part. Which means he's already put in some work before he gets "friend zoned". Guys don't like wasting effort with women anymore than women like wasting effort with men. But by nature, women do not have to make much if ANY effort.
In short, a guy has to decide how much effort he has to put forth. MOST Guys don't approach just ANY woman. So if a guy is making inroads to a woman to date it's probably because he feels there's a connection of sorts. And everyone knows that SOME women know this and unfortunately SOME of those women will exploit this just because they like the attention.
No I agree, I think men she treat women as equals. Only approach women who really put forth effort. And some women make them do the approaching. I mean women want equality right? Here's the deal though. This is where women want equality to stop.😂
Bottom line is you're right that men should MUCH MORE SELECTIVE about the women they ask out. And only ask out women who've earned that honor. More guys need to know thier worth and understand it's not in how many women want to date them. Unfortunately society is the way it is.

[MzAsh]

We understand that sometimes things aren’t equal. Men are generally bigger and stronger. Women typically have it easier in dating. These are just facts. Men should be as selective as they can afford to be. You don’t get to be a 5 trying to demand an 8 and then declare there’s a problem with women. We want men who WANT to work hard to get our attention and to keep it. The right man isn’t going to see approaching as a chore. He’ll be happy to do it. And if he doesn’t, there’s tons of guys who will be honored. And those are the men we want in our lives. If you expect women to do the approaching, then you can also expect to wait patiently for a dominant woman to come along and sweep you off your feet.

[OlderAndWiser]

You asked, "Do you actually believe the friendzone is real?" Later, you commented, "Friend zoning is only when the sexual attraction is one sided." So that implies that you knw the friendzone is real, and the only significant question is how do you define "friendzone?"

[Twalli]

No, that's what people say it is. What it actually is, is when people are both attracted towards each other, but one deliberately chooses not to date the other to preserve their friendship

[OlderAndWiser]

Usually, when I hear people talking about friendzoning, thay are referring to a situation where a guy is interested in a girl but she uses "I don't want to ruin our friendship" as an excuse to not give him a chance. And once that happens, he will never have a chance with her.

[coachTanthony]

the friendzone is a psychological place in which you put yourself when you behave like a friend with the person you like, because you don't have the courage to behave otherwise.

[Paris13]

... And The Ghost Zone. xxoo

[RolandCuthbert]

Of course, it is real. And guys stay there to be close to their crush, while friendzoning the women who could be romantic interests. The funny thing is how some guys pretend that there is some conspiracy to rob them of money or some nonsense. A woman who wants you will knock down mountains to get to you. She will forgive your obvious personality flaws. She will forgive your cheating ways. So obviously, if she doesn't want you it might be a mistake to invest so much time and money in her. She may not be worth it. And doing nice things for women, isn't a way to attract them. It should be reserved in your life for people who are kind to you and make you feel good.

The conversation is so weird, because when guys get friendzoned, they are using doing nice things for the worst people and then complaining the woman is treating them badly or playing dumb. What did they expect?

[CalmUntilAbused]

Yeah, friendzone is definitely real, and I've seen it myself (though I wouldn't say I experienced it myself yet - I do suspect a single relationship like this at the moment, but it might be too soon to judge it - there is definitely no using me involved and it's common for the girl to actually attempt things like splitting the bill, it's just that I generally decline them, though I'm definitely the more active side overall).

Friendzone is basically when the man treats the woman like a close friend or even girlfriend and she treats him like a tool or an ATM (not even an actual friend). It sometimes works the other way round, but it's apparently much more rare of a phenomenon.

[PeachyPie93]

It all comes down to attraction. You can think someone is attractive but you are not into them because your personalities don't match or they just have something off putting about them. Doesn't mean they can't be your friend. I have many guys that are my friends and they are not romantically or sexually interested in me. We are friends because we have fun together. There are also some that I like but they don't like me lol.

[Belgie]

The concept of Friendzone has morphed over the years from the complicated but useful description of one person taking parasitic advantage of anothers attraction to just any old unrequited love (which we already had the words to describe). No wonder the kids today find themselves wondering if its real.

Yes. As originally defined it was real and somewhat rare and useful as a concept. Nowadays when kids insist all sorts of things mean whatever they need it to mean in the moment, who the fuck knows?

https://www.theonion.com/but-if-we-started-dating-it-would-ruin-our-friendship-w-1819584582

[NathanDavis]

to me it's simple...

they're either my friends, or my girlfriends... I don't mess around and pretend to be something I don't mean to

[Twalli]

I only date from my friend group, but I don't make friends based on who is attractive.

[NathanDavis]

the only time I "dated" friends was in high-school and college, because well... we were in the same class, we became friendly, then closer friends and we ended up a couple, because we BOTH fell for each other

but the rest of the girls, we remained friends all through and we still are

and after school years... later in life, I don't really date my "friends" lol... we've just been friends for many years, so it's just not a thing with them...

[Kaamraj]

The FriendZone is real, it is basically asymmetric attraction where the woman benefits at the cost of the man. And being in his position is 100% the man's fault. The opposite of this is the "Friends with Benefits" situation which benefits the man and being in such if the woman's fault.

[DextroShade]

Only guys who lack self-respect allow themselves to be put in the friend-zone, if she doesn'twant to smash then she is useless so ghost her and find a woman who will. The equivalent to the friend-zone for a woman is a guy who only calls her up late at night to smash and never takes her out on dates, listens to her, spends money on her, or shows any concern about her well-being.

[Twalli]

I actually like girls as friends. They're cool. So are guys. Yet I don't want to kiss any guys.

[Djaay]

If a woman isn't trying to give pussy , then she'll do whatever it takes to ween you off of her aka ( friend zone) . If a guy has to ask for pussy , he ain't getting any ( friendzone ) . It's a zone of what can he do for me otherwise or out of sight out of mind.

[caitycat21]

I think it can be a thing but a lot of young men will put themselves in the friend zone because they come off way too strong in the beginning of meeting a girl they are interested in which puts them off

[sheikalana]

Very real. All the men I've friendzoned never got out of it.

[Twalli]

So there was mutual sexual attraction? That's the crux, you aren't required to be attracted to your friends. Yet, I have never met two people who have mutual attraction towards each other who are friends who refuse to act on it due to risking their friendship.

[sheikalana]

I friendzoned them because there was zero attraction from my side.

[KrakenAttackin]

@sheikalana. That's right, the friend zone is the place where sexual hope goes to die.

[Twalli]

So you didn't choose not to date thrm because they were friends. Friendship had no effect on it.

[Luméa]

Yes, this happens if only one side loves and the other side doesn't feel anything, friendzone is real

[Twalli]

Friendzoning is where you won't date someone because they're a friend

[KrakenAttackin]

@Twalli. No, friend zoning happens when one party feels no sexual attraction towards the other party. The first party (usually female) still gets value out of the relationship but does not have to make herself available sexually.

[Dargil]

It can work as business associates or those with other common pursuits, like church.

[Yannae]

Yeah. If you see her as a friend and aren't attracted to her more than that, it's basically the friendzone.

[LiamJHayden]

The Friendzone is a place where people who are into someone whose see them just as friends voluntarily place themselves.

[Nikki1989]

It was never real. It is something people invent in their mind.

[OddBeMe]

Oh sure. It’s not a permanent state. It’s really your fault for not romanticizing your front.

[grega239]

I dont have any female friends so its not real to me