Why I am not a fan of Franklin Roosevelt

[Messianic_Monk]

Franklin Roosevelt, 32nd president of the United States of America

I did a top 10 presidents list (one that I will update some time in the future), and there was probably something very interesting about the list that some people noticed: the consistently ranked high FDR was not on the list. He is consistently ranked 3rd behind only Washington and Lincoln. Yet…I didn’t have him in my top 10. So that brings the question of why? Well…there is SO many things I could list, but I will condense them into essentially 3 points.

1 The New Deal and it’s relationship with the economy

While not all of the new deal is crap…I loathe quite a lot of it. Most of it was massive unconstitutional government overreach. Good portions of the new deal were shot down by the courts as “unconstitutional” during his reign of terror. His presidency saw one of the most massive and invasive grabs of federal power we have ever seen. It was borderline authoritarian.

But what about it’s effect on the economy? Didn’t it help the economy? Well…I’m not so convinced of that. Most of the metrics I see in this regard are pure garbage. Unemployment during FDR’s presidency hung around 20-25%. Inflation was off the charts. So then…in what metric was the country getting better? Well…GDP was going up. That’s something to celebrate…right? Well…inflation can actually make GDP go up so I can’t really hang my hat on that and crown FDR as a champion of economic policy. But it DID finally get better...right around the time America entered World War 2. I am in the boat that it was America entering World War 2 that got America out of the depression (see Dwight Eisenhower’s speech on the military industrial complex).

In fact, there’s a study that was done by UC Berkley that found that the New Deal lengthened the depression. So…I guess we will always debate this topic.

So then…what DID he do economically? Write many many many many MANY stimulus checks as relief money. Just keep printing money, baby!

2 FDR’s relationship with the Jews

FDR’s relationship with the jews was…poor. While I can find no direct quote where he was directly racist to them…it is clear to me that he was not very sympathetic to the Jew’s plight during world war 2. The American response was very poor. Jews found it extremely difficult to flee to America during world war 2. FDR even wanted them deported to various other places rather than let them into the country. By the time he relaxed his immigration policies it was way too late. Most of the Jewish communities in Germany were either exterminated or they relocated to other parts of Europe. Bottom line: FDR had many chances to help the jews out and didn’t take them. And because of this we saw one of the most brutal atrocities committed against a people ever committed.

3 Executive order 9066

Probably the most sinister thing FDR directly did. While suspending habeas corpus is nothing new…FDR’s was a lot more racially motivated than any other president. FDR specifically targeted the German, Italian and Japanese immigrants (kind of sort of). That’s bad enough…but this executive order disproportionately targeted the Japanese. And quite a few of the Japanese that were rounded up weren’t even immigrants. Many were American citizens.

During his time in office human rights were denied to these groups…but it is very clear that they disproportionately effected Japanese people rather than German and Italian descent. And once it finally wore off…the Japanese found it way harder to pick themselves back up compared to their Italian and German counterparts.

I do not want to point the finger at FDR and accuse him of racism…but when you look at the numbers it really makes you wonder though…was it racially motivated? I really can’t say for certain…but one could certainly make a case that it was.

Conclusion:

I still do rank him in the top half of presidents we’ve ever had. He was a Great War leader (minus the internment camps), and did start various programs like social security that I like. But for me…some of the more painful things that happened under his administration make it difficult for me to really like him. He’s not in the top 10 but I’d have him above 18 maybe *shrugs*

[monorprise]

Its hard to dispute the fact form a Constitutional point of view and the point of view of effectiveness FDR was perhaps one the worse president we ever had.

Not only did FDR take a wreaking ball to the constitution he didn't even accomplish any of his stated goals of restoring the economy. Instead he did the exact opposite, every time the economy started to recover he would impose a new mandate that would knock it down again.

This kept going on and on even after his own advisers pointed it out to FDR until World war 2 and FDR finally kicked the can.

That he won an unprecedented 4 terms showed not only his total lack of respect for the printable of giving up power malevolently, but really the corrupting influence of his unconstitutional vote buying scheme.

[Messianic_Monk]

I will say, in my presidential rankings I do have him ranked in the top half... ONLY because of the fact that he had to wage a war on 2 coasts. Besides the revolutionary war, the civil war and maybe the war of 1812 I do not think a president has ever had to navigate a more stressful war effort than that. And for me that is a BIG deal. But it is SOLELY and ONLY on account of that. I mean... I have Ulysses S. Grant, James Polk, Grover Cleveland hell even James Garfield ranked ahead of FDR. I think his predecessor was much better tbh. Not saying I'm happy with Harry Truman... but he is more tolerable than FDR.

Good thing the courts were working overtime to shoot down his unconstitutional acts. Oh yeah... and when they DID he tried to expand the Supreme Court in order to pack it with people who would go along with his unconstitutional acts and ignore the constitution!

And then, of course, he didn't carry through with his promises. Now given that his promises were... garbage to say the least... he was put in a stalemate in the minds of people like us. Either accomplish his goals and piss us off for doing it... or not accomplish them and go down in history as another politician who didn't do what he said he'd do and piss us off anyways.

WW2 got us out of the depression. easily. I mean... things didn't improve nearly as much until we entered WW2. And as former president Eisenhower pointed out... war is profitable.

So if WW2 really got us out of the depression... why the hell do we idolize this man?

An unconstitutional buying scheme that got legalized under Lyndon Johnson that still continues to this day :/ I mean look at the electoral map. His first 2 terms? Landslides. The next ones? I mean they were still landslides... but his victory margins in states were much closer.

as for worst president I still argue that James Buchanan, Andrew Johnson and Woodrow Wilson are tied for the cream of the crap.

[monorprise]

@Messianic_Monk FDR may have been president during world war 2 but he was also president during the events that led to world war 2 and made many of the critical choices that made the war far more difficult over the opposition of advisers and rivals.

It is quite likely had FDR lost reelection in 1940, we would have fought a much diffrent and reduced war. It was after all FDR who put Japan in a potion where they had to attack us via cutting them off from vital oil and rubber.
Japan attacked because if they didn't capture U. S. held territories in the philippines and south east Asia to recover such resources they would lose the war.

Just as it was FDR who relocated our entire pacific fleet into 1 location, far away from said Philippines where japan could surprise attack them all at the same time. He clearly gambled Japan would do what he was asking, or baited them into war perhaps to solve FDR's own self-created political problems. Japan of course did the most logical thing and took out our conveniently located fleet before beginning their successful campaign to claim the resources they needed.

In regard to the European Theater, FDR also watched Germany invade Poland, France, and bomb the U. K. while taking the half-asses policy of clearly siding with the U. K. but not being willing to provide anything other than material support.

Again this was for pure political reasons of FDR trying to appear uninvolved while actually very clearly siding against Germany forcing Germany to deal with us eventually. The result was war with Germany was inevitable as Germany as everyone knew, while FDR largely sat back as Germany ravaged and conquered our only allies.

So to be frank in both cases the world war 2 we had was far more bloody and instructive than would have happen if FDR had lost reelection.

[strateguy632]

in economy even d. n. c. advisor said don't change but he not only ignored expert, even his own d. n. c. he ignored. as you mentioned inflation was awful and made gdp seem good. about jews anyone who read hitler book knew jews were refugees in danger. still no country wanted them as 1938 newspaper reported. still in jew fdr was no worse than any other country...

except his war betrayal. in 1940 due to nutral reelected but when japan attacked he betrayed the voters on Europe issue and sent citizens and troops into danger for Europe which was not justified by japan war. could stay nutral in Europe like voters.

the "sinister" thing was justified due to spies.

for economy and causing more death as above fdr far worse than the forgotten ones and almost as bad as the d. n. c. truman? who ordered atom bomb on a CITY jeez. worse than chemical poison.

alternative? in 1942 focus on attacker japan. in 1945 u. s. can use CHINA to invade industrial manchuria... the thing soviets did, that violated a treaty but u. s. should. as commander in chief these two dnc were worst presidents ever.

[Anonymous]

1. The New Deal basically kept things from completely falling apart. And did help build the infrastructure that would later help America boom in the 40s.

2. Prominent wealthy Jewish leaders lobbied for FDR not to take in Jewish refugees as they feared this might kick up antisemitic sentiment that would affect Jews in America. Remember the kkk had been very strong in the 30s.

3. The internment of Japanese citizens was in their best intrests. What happened to German Americans during WW1 was awful. Remember in the US African Americans were being lynched by the thousands every year, what would have happened to the Japanese if they hadn't been protected.

4. One of the criticisms that you fail to mention is his use of government agencies to suppress the media coverage of himself. He was also a master manipulator and liar.

FDR along with like minded individuals was the architect of the realisation of American exceptionalism. Before ww1 and after they grew US wealth, economic and military power so that by 1945 they were able to take their position as the no1 world power and swallowed up most of the imperial possessions of Europe and Japan as well as controlling half of Europe and being in defacto control of central and south America. Only the Soviet Union and their warsaw pact and Chinese allies rivaled the US hegemony. Fast forward to 2023 the US hegemony is in control of most of Warsaw Pact countries having defeated the soviet unionand is currently breaking Russia which will likely split into independent republics and much of its wealth and resources being swallowed up by the US Hegemony and China.

[OddBeMe]

Fair. I do hate the Japanese concentration camps. Not like we had any issue with Germans in America. Something about skin color. And Nazis actually did sneak into America to sabotage factories. But they were all caught.

As far as the economy…eh, I think historians are with FDR on this one. Like Obama facing Bush’s disastrous “recession”, a lot of money and welfare has to be spent on the middle class. It’s called Keynesian Economics.

And you alluded to Republicans and courts canceling a lot of FDR’s actions. Funny how the GDP during the 30s slowly rises with every FDR legislation…then crashes when Republicans get into power and cancel a lot of them.

Same as 2010 with Obama. Literally the Obama stimulus starts a huge uptick in the economy and then 2011 Congress comes in and we’ve got trouble. No more stimulus. No more growth. Then the GOP pointed at the lack of growth as proof Obama’s policies didn’t work.

But that was only bought by dumb Americans watching Fox News.

[Avicenna]

It takes a special sort of stupid to see economics (including unrelated topics that are inaccurately conflated) solely through a partisan lens. You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about (as usual). But that’s to be expected from a Grievance Studies major who’s been pampered his whole life.

[OddBeMe]

@Avicenna easy to garble those words into a post. Harder to prove me wrong.

[Avicenna]

Only an ideologue with no knowledge of economics would believe such a thing. But think about this- is it possible that your beloved CCP DC branch could get economic policy right every time? Of course not (see Jimmy Carter and Lyndon Johnson for examples), nor do they intend to.

Your worship for Obama is as pathetic as your lack of knowledge about long-term economic growth.

[OddBeMe]

@Avicenna did I say we got it right every time? Don’t think I did. Any other straw man you want to toss at me? You attack when you’re out of arguments.

I’m still waiting for why FDR’s economic policies failed…

[BCA6010]

FDR should be near the bottom, especially for anyone critical of the current state and overreach of the federal government. He still isn't as bad as Woodrow Wilson, but he is grossly overrated, in large part because of his wartime leadership (which wasn't actually very good, but is looked at favorably anyway because we won that war and he died in office).

[Anonymous]

I greatly appreciate what you did and brought forth some of the Great stupidity of our democracy. I remember when my grandfather had told me about FDR confiscating a lot of the gold from The Americans. I have seen our country spiral into recessions because of the new deal.

I am not a fan of FDR myself. He thought he'd save America by creating social security program. Thanks to FDR we all look forward for retirement with supposedly a nice little stipends that we were supposed to have set aside for us when we get to that age of 62 to 65. I remember Lyndon baines Johnson the Royal asshole took all of our social security monies and added it into the federal deficit. Now because of the Democrats and their uninfinent wisdom they choose to do more damage to the our social security system which we put all of our hard-earned money aside.

[Messianic_Monk]

No kidding. I don't see how anyone can say that FDR was some economic genius/champion of civil rights. All the metrics I saw for our economy during his time in office are the metrics of a president that would not be re-elected. He only DID get re-elected because he was printing stimulus checks and restoring American hope in the banking system. While he had some reforms to the banking system I agree with... his method of making them comply was very authoritarian like.

Because... as Reagan pointed out... all of those government programs came at an invisible cost. And that cost was inflation. We as a nation will never learn... will we? :(

I mean in principal I agree with social security... but in practice I have yet to meet someone who actually reaped benefits from it. If no one is going to get benefits from it then what's the point? My dad has openly said that he thinks there is a higher likelihood of him meeting Spock tomorrow than him getting social security benefits. Let's face it... it's a Ponzi scheme >_>

Oh gosh... don't even get me started on LBJ. All of the federal overreach... the DISASTROUS "war on poverty" and all of the implicit racism of his administration... he was an awful president. And I did hear about him confiscating social security benefits during his presidency. there's a reason why during his bid to run for a second full term he dropped out. His popularity just wasn't there when election season rolled around.

Lol... it's funny... I talk about these guys like I lived through their administrations yet I am so young. All I can say is that I do lots of research 😅 But I appreciate the words of the elderly in political discussions :)

[bayoubob]

He was what one would call a true dictator. It was just an honor system rule that limited Presidents to two terms prior to him. That totally flies in the face of what America is about. It's because of him that it's now a law to only serve two terms.

[bayoubob]

Yet, we are too stupid as a nation to have term limits across the board for everything and no life time appointments!

[Messianic_Monk]

harry Truman did sign into law an amendment that forbid another 4 term president.

[Avicenna]

Excellent points. He was very much an overrated President.

[Messianic_Monk]

I forgot to add FDR's suspension of Habeas Corpus.

Don't get me wrong... I do feel that Lincoln overstepped his boundaries with HIS suspension of Habeas Corpus... but I see him criticized FAR MORE than people like FDR. And Lincoln freed the slaves! Not to mention he was all for minorities having the right to vote and a whole bunch of other stuff. What did FDR do in comparison? I can't really think of anything off of the top of my head.

[Avicenna]

Lincoln wanted to send freed slaves to Africa. And a more skilled politician than him wouldn’t have butchered so many people (thanks also in part to his clueless appointment of lousy commanders).

[LiamJHayden]

FDR was an anti-constitutional, imperial presidency-supporting bigot. Sorry if that observation ticks anyone off, but it is true.

[Dargil]

I'm not either, but his opponents weren't much better.