Do you feel modern feminism is failing?

[RJGraveyTrain]

Okay, feminists, don't get super offended. Let me be upfront and say that OG feminism doesn't bother me, and I see no problem in there being specific groups who represent a certain demographic's issues. I think the main issue with feminism today is that it has deviated away from what it used to be, to something that people no longer take seriously or see value in.

While I know there are good factions in feminism, the extremists unfortunately have the loudest (and most off-putting) voice. I've noticed as well in my time that even if you do try to constructively criticize the movement, you're often met with a lot of hate. On the flipside, due to the extremism genuine feminists who aim to do good are met with their own barrage of hatred. Feminism today has pretty much become the new "F word."

I won't go into my specific criticisms of the third wave in this Q, but I may address it in a mytake in the future. So, feminists and non-feminists alike, do you feel like modern feminism is failing? What criticism or defense can you offer this movement?

Updates

+1 y

Note: I like just about everybody's opinions when they comment on my questions. I only mention this because I've been asked about it before. My liking of one particular opinion doesn't necessarily reflect my personal beliefs.

Just as an FYI.

[AdamThomas]

It's failing because of the internet and the growing number of anti-feminist groups pointing out their lies, their misandry and the double standards they hold themselves.

A lot of people though when it cones to this argument always mention that the "extremists are the ones with the loudest voices" and that these are the ones who ruin it for the "good" feminists as you did. The thing is that most of these feminists, both the "good" feminists and the extremists you say have the loudest voices, are nobodies. They make youtube videos and write articles, but they have no power.

The real problem most anti-feminists have is with feminist organisations that do have political power, and what these organisations actually do - how feminism really impacts society in terms of policies and laws.

For example, many feminists claim to support the idea of shared parenting, and stay at home Fathers. They claim to want Fathers to be more involved in their children's lives. They claim that it was "the patriarchy" that made it so that women were seen as primary caregivers. Actually, back in the days of "the patriarchy", after divorce men got custody of the children. It was feminists who introduced what is known as the "tender years doctrine", where they argued that children needed to be with their Mothers. Feminists put that in place. And then Feminist organisations like the NOW (National Organisation for Women) though do everything in their power to prevent shared parenting from happening, claiming that abusive men would use it (and the children) to hurt the women who left them because they were abusive. I'm sure that I don't need to explain how biased and misandric that view is.

Then when it comes to DV for example, ask any feminist and she'll say that all violence is wrong and that men should have just as much help as women. They'll ignore statistics that show that men are actually 40-50% of victims and will still pretend that it's more like 90% man on women, but they'll admit that those men need help. But when men do try to help abused men? Feminist organisations yet again do everyrhing in their power to stop it.

What does it matter then what some nobody on the internet thinks is or isn't real feminism, when this is what feminism actually does? It's like a Nazi supporter saying that he doesn't support killing Jews, that it isn't real Nazism, while the real Nazis in power are doing exactly that. He's a nobody and his opinion is irrelevant.

[Cosytoasty]

Have you ever run into feminists in real life Jackie?

I can't say I have. Every single girl I've met has been quite... normal. In the sense that they don't complain about perceived inequality because there isn't much of it.

[RJGraveyTrain]

That's exactly it. I've met ONE hardcore feminist back in high school, but that's about it.

[Cosytoasty]

Indeed! Much like MGTOW I've never run into anyone (in a city of 12 million people) remotely like feminists.

I'm at university now where you'd expect them to be and... nada. It's just girls and boys studying together and having fun.

I feel that it's a very US thing, more specifically the recluses on American college campuses that stew in their dorms and post drivel on twitter.

[RJGraveyTrain]

Loool you're probably not wrong.

[Cosytoasty]

TY for MH 🤜

[RJGraveyTrain]

No ish 👍🏻

[xHoneyxBeex]

I agree with you. Like others here have said, it started out with good intentions (like most social movements do) but so many modern feminists just seem so aggressive and hostile which doesn't lead to any productive conversation.

I also don't believe that western feminists represent all women, they only represent a certain subsection of women who think and believe a specific way. If any woman falls outside that way of thinking, you are no longer welcome or considered in their movement. This is very clear by how many of them act and speak about conservative/traditional women. I have seen feminists berate and "scold' women who express any interest in traditional gender roles. Feminists claim they believe in the power of "choice"... unless you choose a lifestyle they disagree with apparently.

When I was still in college, I had classes with a LOT of modern feminists. I wanted to have open discussion and try to understand where they were coming from. However, any time I voiced a dissenting opinion that differed from "the group," I got so many glares and rude remarks. I am fairly conservative but I truly have an open-mind and wanted to talk about social issues. I quickly learned that I couldn't do that though because they immediately got defensive and then resorted to name-calling or other condescending remarks.

So I essentially gave up trying to have adult conversations with them. All this being said, I know not ALL feminists are the same, but the problem is, the most loud spoken ones seem to be the most hateful. This just creates what we see now, men AND women who no longer take the movement seriously.

[CheerGirl38139]

Oh God where do I begin?

i0.kym-cdn.com/.../3b1.jpg

Like many other "movements" - what starts out with good and needed intent gets taken over by radicals, and hyped by all forms of media, until it's origins are lost. And by that point, the vast majority of let's say "moderate minded" people (i. e.. most of us) are not listening anymore. And when we do hear them, we just want them to shut the fuck up.

This can be applied to all sorts of "movements" that had their origins in the right place and soon lost their true meaning.

What frickin' cracks me up, is when some MGTOW fucktard ASS-umes that I'm a feminist or "feminazi", simply for calling him out on his female bullying/whining/shaming bullshit. It's like their "go-to" reply.

TRUE feminism is:
suhmatiya.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/feminist.jpg

NOT the stupid fucking idea that women are "the same " as men. We're not. We're not supposed to be. Most of us don't want to be. We just don't want to be denied basic equal rights and opportunities based on our genitals. Same goes for men.

Dude I could go on and on and on... seriously... but on G@G... it's not worth that much of my energy. :)

Note to MGTOW antagonistic troll: When you come in to comment on this opinion, when I block you, please know that's it's not because you were "right", or that I'm "butthurt" - because I'm giving you ZERO of my time. Period. Have a nice day.

cf.girlsaskguys.com/.../...6-a16f-95f9c3309e3d.jpg

[RJGraveyTrain]

We basically have the exact same opinion.

Also to the MGTOW troll: you're that one guy who shows up to a party that you weren't invited to and single handedly sobers everyone up and clears a room. <3

[CheerGirl38139]

Thank you OP 😘

[RJGraveyTrain]

No problem

[Tanisha69]

I like the way you put things. I agree!!

[CHARismatic110]

Just like with most things, it started out good. Really good. But like you said, once it was hijacked by extremist, it went downhill. Now it becomes hard to be taken seriously when everything is seen as offensive and nitpicked over. Real issues are drowned out and it seems like this battle of wanting to make men pay has become the main focus. So yes, in a sense i do feel that it is failing because I feel that it has lost its way and the original sense of meaning.

[RJGraveyTrain]

I think that's a really good way of putting it.

[CHARismatic110]

Why thank you

[ADFSDF1996]

It's a trend and it's definitely on it's downfall, all it's causing is men and women to be more divided. They falsely label themselves "equal rights activists" but they are far from it. It's now clear modern feminism has a secret agenda which is to establish a matriarchy. However, since every new decade something new happens which could mean that modern feminism could possibly and hopefully meet it's demise by 2020.

People often say that maybe third world countries do require feminism. I disagree, I believe they require better human rights in general.

[havfodore]

the people in third world countries actually get shocked to see when feminazis run around the streets with their tits exposed in developed nations
"the so called 3rd world countries "
some of which have started to appreciate scientific learning have progressed ! they aren't like the ones shown in western media or our own media.
but sad thing is looking at such bizarre footages from western media and youtube some ladies of 3rd world countries are losing their moral values and they have started to behave like these feminazis.

[madhatters4]

i think the harping on the wage gap is becoming a pointless battle as most seem (both men and women) agree that there are rather legitimate reasons for wage gaps where they exist but there are lots of areas in which they are still making strides and as long as progress occurs i don't think we can say it's failing

[Cccgala]

As long as their stances continue to get debunked, the movement will probably not last long. They always fail in getting their points across.

[RJGraveyTrain]

What would you say they could do to get those points across?

[Cccgala]

I would like them to address both sides. They don't. They view men as superior than them and they are obnoxiously believing that women will take the limelight if time ever sides on their favor and if they play the victim. Modern feminism clearly is in favor of women and that seems to be the intent of the modern movement, a deviance from the first wave.

[RJGraveyTrain]

Fair enough criticism.

[Cccgala]

The movement can be difficult to deal with because people who adhere to that might have their respective reasons. Some modern feminists' reasons for identifying as such might be rooted from intersectional issues like ethnicity, religion, and culture; some feminists may identify as such solely because of their want of privilege. One thing's certain about them, though— all of them believe they are marginalized.

[SarahsSummer]

You think modern feminist "view men as superior..."?

[Cccgala]

@SarahsSummer I do. That's their fuel. If modern feminists don't view men as superior, then they wouldn't be keen on arguing about the "77 cents for every dollar" wage gap controversy, for instance.

[SarahsSummer]

Interesting? I never thought about it that way. So they are essntially fighting themselves, fighting their belief to disprove it?

[MrOracle]

First and second wave type Feminism is still needed in many parts of the world, where women are treated like second class citizens.

In western nations, though, it has succeeded, and has become the standard and rightly so. Women should be equal to the extent that their biology allows (men and women can never be identical) - and that is overwhelmingly how it is. And when it isn't, there are already mechanisms in place to address it.

Third wave Feminism is a completely different animal, though. Equality has been forgotten and has been replaced by a desire to assign blame and to put women above men. The champions of the Third Wave are radical academics who demand that men completely change their very nature and who view women who CHOOSE a career path that doesn't involve college and positions of power as gender traitors. Many have stated outright that they are after "revenge" rather than equality, and refuse to accept that individual choice is responsible for many "on-paper" inequalities.

But Third Wave has been losing support for more than a decade already (except on college campuses, due to radical Women's Studies" courses), because too many women have figured out that they aren't oppressed in the real world, and that they aren't really interested in many jobs and career paths that men follow. They know it is their own choices, not male oppression, that leads to the outward differences between the sexes.

[FakeName123]

The problem with feminism since at least the 60s movement is that the people in power aren't your lovey dovey, equality striving women. If you read what the 60s feminists said, then you realise it never was about peaceful equality since then. Instead it were vile, toxic, bitter and hateful women being in power.

And that simply hasn't changed. It doesn't matter if a good amount of followers are with good intentions - the internet advocates don't do jackshit. They have no power, no influence, no loud voice that's being heard. Instead they are - even with good intentions - helping those toxic and vile beings due to their own naivety.

And this is by assuming that many followers are with good intentions... which they are not. Instead these followers hate femininity. They perceive it as weak, fragile and inferior. Psychological projection.

And as a result they try to make women behave like men while sabotaging men at the same time.

How much of that is conscious effort or subconscious, I can't tell you. But they are definitely a toxic and vile bunch. Either on purpose or through their own flawed views of self-loathing.

[WiLLiZ_001]

Third wave feminism is cancer in the Western societies. Women have the best quality of life and the most opportunities here. Women are oppressed in other countries, and those countries need more feminists movements.

Plus, third-wave feminists turn their back on women who aren't feminists, and call them "women haters." So basically, if you aren't a feminist and you don't subscribe to their ideology (as a woman), you are a self-loathing woman that hates other women.

To be honest, I feel like third wave feminists hate themselves more... lol!

[SarahsSummer]

I think largely the "modern" feminist movement is confused and feminism as a whole is largely irrelevant. I applaud the women before us that showed women need to have equal rights and opportunities as men. But now that we largely do I don't see the point. As a woman, pursue whatever it is you want that makes you feel happy, satisfied and whole. There really are no barriers (at least here in the USA). Part of the problem with the "modern" feminist movement is that too many want to push their agenda on other women. Not accepting of the fact that while we all have equal rights, we don't have equal interests. There's nothing wrong with CHOOSING to be a stay at home mom, just like there's nothing wrong with pursuing a career with corporate advancement. we need to respect each other's wishes, wants, desires and needs and help each other achieve our individual goals if through nothing more than not pushing your own agenda.

[PoliceLivesMatter]

I never understood what feminists today are trying to achieve or push towards? If you look at many or even all realms of life, women are just about equal if not sometimes superior to men. Women today, specifically in the US, are the most privileged group of individuals that planet earth or civilization has seen.

[RJGraveyTrain]

Essentially they aim to do what all demographic specific groups do: they speak for gender specific issues. There are social issues that effect both men and women, as well as some legal (women getting more in the divorce and in some countries rape within a marriage is not considered a crime, as two gender-specific issues for example).

I'm not a feminist myself but I get what the movement is about.

[PoliceLivesMatter]

I'm not sure what gender specific issues women face here in the US. We can take about a case by case individual instance, but widespread issue that women face today? I can't think of a lot of examples

[RJGraveyTrain]

They don't just represent the US, some groups even in the US and Canada try to fund for other countries. You'd have to ask a feminist who was more involved because I don't want to give bad information.

[RJGraveyTrain]

Because like I said I'm not a feminist by definition. I'm an egalitarian.

[PoliceLivesMatter]

Okay, I understand.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Failing implies trying something and have it not work, which sounds kinda harmless. This not what I feel from feminism. It's pursuing things that are bad and even when it doesn't manage to get exactly what it wants it seems to still screw everything up in the process.

From what I can tell feminism has had this toxic element for 150 years.

To all these "good feminists," talking about extremist and whatnot doesn't do anything so separate from it. There's literally no reason to cling to the label unless it's out of a silly personal (and entirely impractical) attachment to the term.

Furthermore there's many people that call themselves good feminists and point to others as the extremists when what they themselves want is still shite. If every *truly* good feminist just drops like label and stops trying to defend a word that is practically meaningless at this point - then it easier to identify the "not so good" feminists that point to others as "the bad ones"

[RealandGenuine1991]

The reason I don't respect feminists of today is because they are bitter women who hate guys. and heck even hate women that don't go along with their non sense. at least feminists from decades ago actually stood for something. Today's feminist movement is more like trying to cause division.

[Thunnnder]

Feminism's purpose was to help women, but today they're harming them more than they claim men are harming women.
Feminism isn't just a problem to men, but to women too. It's a problem for society. It accomplished its goals decades ago, and in order to keep the movement alive, they have strayed from what feminism meant.

[RJGraveyTrain]

I'm kind of shocked that no women have answered this question yet.

[Thunnnder]

Interesting. Is it always like this in this kind of posts, where only men answer?

[RJGraveyTrain]

Yeah men always answer more on most Q's and especially mytakes. I thought the girls would have flooded in by now.

[Thunnnder]

Well I hope some girls answer, I'm curious to see what they say

[tzdc21]

Yep. It's become a hate group that spreads misandry. It cares only for women and women's issues, but doesn't give a damn about men's issues, despite their claims that they want "equality." In fact it CAUSES more problems for both men AND women. Men because it inserts frequent hatred towards us just for existing in movies, TV shows, videos and all forms of social media and entertainment. Women because it spreads a whole bunch of lies to them and turns them into hateful bitter people who will end up suffering extreme loneliness.

[The_Underground_Man]

I think it already failed a long time ago and we are just in the afternath. The radicalization is not the cause of the problem but rather a symptom because feminism is failure itself. Which is actually kind of sad, because realistically I have no problem with women doing whatever they want so long as it does not hurt me. I just do not like for women expecting to receive special treatment even though they no longer want to fulfill their traditional obligations and then treating average guys like as if we were nothing more than insurance policies to settle down with after sleeping around with the assholes at the top. More than anything, I need to know that a woman genuinely loves me and is not just using me. Honestly I would probably prefer a sex positive feminist woman just because all of the kinky things we could do like watching porn together and indulging my foot fetish.

[RJGraveyTrain]

Not exactly what I was expecting... but... okay.

[The_Underground_Man]

What can I say? Time away has done me good. You know I actually dated two liberal feminist girls during my absence and we were actually pretty compatible. Plus I have a kink for choker necklaces.

[RJGraveyTrain]

That wasn't at all what I meant and I'm not particularly asking for personal kinks.

[The_Underground_Man]

Well in that case, I think the main problem with feminism today is that it has outlived its usefulness. There are few if any true examples left in this country and yours of women actually being discriminated against and/or kept down because of their sex. Since the feminists cannot find any real issue to address, they are forced to make them up and create mountains out of molehills.

[worldscolide]

I believe it has failed, in that what use to be a movement for equality, has turned in to a movement for superiority. I remember the infamous big red saying "cry me a river, if they have issues they need their own movement." the issue with that is, the moment they form one, the moment we start standing up for our selves, feminists do everything in their power to shut it down, going so far as to incite violence.

[RedVulcan]

If in USA, Canada, or Western Europe, then yes, third wave feminism needs to stop. It is no longer the feminism of the past, and does not even bother to hide that it doesn't strive for equality.
In other places of the world, where women are still oppressed, then yes, let's get more first and second wave feminism going. I think we should push for as meritocratic a global society as possible.

[Tanisha69]

Yes definitely. I won't call myself a feminist because of the negative vibes that sends out to many people. They need a new name for wanting everyone to be equal. Feminism as a term worked back in the 60s but so did the words Negro and retarded. Now we don't use those words and we shouldn't use feminism either.

[Izumiblu]

I agree with you 100%, although id go so far as to say the loudest branch you talk about has actually failed. It is no longer about supporting women, its about supporting a specific group of women that have agendas that really don't speak for women.

[Blanquino]

I disagree with some of them wanting abortion regardless the developement of the baby inside the womb. Also, some of them sound agressive towards men. But I am pretty happy that the movements goes on. It's not perfect (nothing is perfect, right?) but it's better than nothing.

[SlightlyCrazy]

I feel like every trend ever has the same issue. It stays around long enough for it to branch. The branches shout louder and the original message gets lost. It feels like modern feminism is a damn civil war with too many factions. It is hard to support when I'm pulled 16 ways. I consider myself a feminist. But I don't bother to align

[Kushcon]

Lets be honest, there is no such thing as modern feminism, there was 2nd and 1st wave feminism that were actually meant to do something but as far as 3rd wave which we are at now.. its failed long before today, they run on facts that are false, misleading, or inaccurate and women are equal to men as it is nowadays