Why Men are Sometimes Justified in Avoiding Monogamy

Why Men are Sometimes Justified in Avoiding Monogamy

These are typical things you will hear a woman say when it comes to sex and relationships:

"make him wait"

"there is only one thing on his mind"

"ugh, player... so repulsive"

"he just wants to USE me for sex"

"I am NOT an object"

Men that just want one night stands or non-comitted sex type relationships are often frowned upon as womanisers (as if sex was something that was only pleasurable for the man and that women get 'used' for sex). In fact lots of women demand men settle into a long-term monogamous relationship before they will even consider sex and maybe even marriage. Lots of conventional dating websites and magazines for women will by and large offer the same perspective: "make him wait".

Men that don't agree with this advice will get little sympathy from women nor from society by and large. This is in contrast to the notion that society idolises the player - this is not strictly true, or if it is true it is only true after the fact. Before men 'score' (again assuming women have nothing to gain or 'score' themselves from sex), society will typically offer the same advice as popstar Beyonce: 'put a ring on it'.

But this advice is neither fair nor pratical in a commercialised world where more and more women are being promiscuous, especially favouring a small minority of high status males - celebrities, very attractive models, and wealthy, successful men. The majority of men outside this clique will by and large be inexperienced and yet asked to wait for sex, maybe even choosing just one woman as their lifetime partner. This is in spite of being more sexually experienced than a woman.

What's wrong with this? For one thing, it's plain hypocrisy: women can sleep with whomever they want to ("go feminism!") while men are demonised for owning their sexual desires and not wanting to be with a partner who denies them this ("you can't have your cake and eat it ... why would anyone want their cake if they couldn't eat it anyway"). Maybe more men would put up with the fact their dates were not promiscuous if their long-term partners weren't either. But as it stands, women typically demand the double standard of being 'treated like a princess and f**ked like a slut'.

This is not to mention the fact that men don't feel like being strung along in a relationship for months on end wooing and courting their woman all with the vague possibility of something more while the woman decides how she 'feels'. What's more is that most men would wonder why all these other guys were so special that they did NOT have to wait for sex and if that's really the case that they simply were more *worth it* why would this girl wasting time on this new guy who isn't *worth it* for a relationship.

Next time you read cosmopolitan magazine then, and it tells you to apply the '3 month rule' maybe you should be thinking about your own integrity (are you a virgin?) and whether it's worth alienating good men because society tells you that all men are horndogs that want to treat you like a piece of meat. Also, are you really being 'used' for sex, or do you CHOOSE to have sex with a man because you are attracted to him, you genuinely enjoy sex and you feel that sex with this man would be worth it? If not, then maybe you should not be having sex full stop, because sex is not about doing something because the other person 'needs' it.


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What Girls Said 22

  • Women will never frown at a non committed relationship. We frown on men who feel they need to deceive in order to get that. No one likes to be played

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    • They might not need to deceive you personally, but it is true that a lot of women do practice these double standards and are playing the men themselves like that.

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    • @Unhappy_Sock

      that's because most men have already realised that virtue doesn't get the lady. the 'make him wait' philosophy just weeds out the good men if not applied right.

      that's why I have adapted it to 'Make the Player Wait, Reward the Good Man': www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a24166-ethics-of-female-sexual-identity-make-the-player-wait-reward-the

    • The Make Him Wait is just common sense, get to know anyone a bit so you can see their true intentions. I think it extends to platonic relationships. You can't expect people to sleep with people they don't trust, and for many people it takes a while to trust enough to sleep with them. Not everyone is a dick and just holding out for the sake of exerting power.

  • I want to Know something, when you mention sex it means intercourse or can it Just be enough With some sexual stimulation like kissing or masturbating the other?

    Also, we can't Also generalize as well, it is like saying That women are sluts if they have a lot of boyfriends, While Men are praised for having a lot of women.

    There are

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    • Good question.

      Obviously sex is usually referred to in terms of full intercourse and that's the context in this discussion. But even with other forms of sexual contact, you could apply similar principles to the one described in the take. So short answer is: it doesn't matter what definition you use.

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    • I understand That promiscuous is not bad, in both genders, it is Just That society puts it depending of What it wants to promote or sell.

      And i understand That you want to defend your gender, i think. But in other words, in both genders one is responsable of their own actions, one has the right to decide what to do in life, and accept both good and bad things. Of course, one unfair thing is That the others judge and criticize your actions While it appears That they accept and even praise what others do even if it is against what one thinks and does.

    • 'I understand That promiscuous is not bad, in both genders, it is Just That society puts it depending'

      Right. Hypergamy is the real enemy here. It's just that it's difficult to talk about hypergamy without relating it to promiscuity in some way.

      ' in both genders one is responsable of their own actions,'

      Correct, but women have the most sexual power in dating, this is why I focus on their behaviour.

      'one has the right to decide what to do in life, and accept both good and bad things'

      Correct, but one is also free to explain the consequences of another's actions. Furthermore, one is free to pass judgement of another's behaviour.

  • I swear. Everyday I come on here, there's a fresh wave of stupidity from someone.

    1) "For one thing, it's plain hypocrisy: women can sleep with whomever they want to ("go feminism!") while men are demonised for owning their sexual desires and not wanting to be with a partner who denies them this"

    Do you understand the definition of hypocrisy? In order for the above to be as such, the scenarios would have to be the same. And they're not.

    A woman sleeping with everyone and a man wanting to sleep with everyone while not accepting a partner who will let him do this are TWO DIFFERENT scenarios. (Why would the guy even get in a relationship if he wants to sleep with everyone? There are plenty of people out there that love relationships like this though).

    2) "This is not to mention the fact that men don't feel like being strung along in a relationship for months on end wooing and courting their woman all with the vague possibility of something more while the woman decides how she 'feels'"

    Plenty of women know how they feel when they're with someone and there are plenty of guys who don't.

    3) "What's more is that most men would wonder why all these other guys were so special that they did NOT have to wait for sex and if that's really the case that they simply were more *worth it* why would this girl wasting time on this new guy who isn't *worth it* for a relationship"

    Then the guy thinking this is stupid. There are plenty of reasons why a woman would have instantly given herself up to plenty of guys. One of many happens to be the fact that she may have believed that a lot of guys prefer women who give it up early and yet she keeps getting left out in the cold. So she wants to change her behavior.

    4) Being a virgin isn't necessarily about integrity. I encourage EVERY woman to utilize the 3 month rule if she so chooses: whether she's as closed up as a nun or as widespread as the Black plague before.

    "Good men" aren't being alienated just because a woman does not have sex as soon as you want her to. The 3 month rule helps her weed out the guys who are only there for sex and not a relationship or want sex when THEY want it without making sure that their partner is ready.

    Grow up.

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    • I realized that I didn't even mention anything about the title. Every man is free to do what he wants, but not all monogomous relationships are like that and only a fool would believe so (just like a person is a fool for believing in stereotypes). Go out and sleep with as many people as you want. It's your life. But don't try and feed people bullshit.

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    • What makes you think that I care that you lack patience? I dont.

      I mentioned it because its a common theme I've seen from you and more than a few others.

      there's nothing to discuss. Your post was irrational. I posted my opinion.

    • Ok then, enjoy your discussion with yourself, 'rational' lion.

  • Think that you really want to say is that you think it's unfair that most women, who in general could have casual sex every night or several times a day with any random guys they meet, and yet choose not to. While it's not that easy for men?
    And why I can eat this strawberry cake today, and choose not to eat the same cake tomorrow. Why oh why.

    First of all, even if we put aside all emotional and psychological factors, women have a more lot to prepare before jumping into bed with someone. Forget about STD and pregnancy, ever heard of Candida and BV? Every woman can easily get those even in a monogamous relationship, but chances are exponentially higher when engaging in casual sex. So just because I had sex today, does it mean I'll be ready to go tomorrow or next week? Maybe not.

    So maybe a woman is a person who opens up easily and gets comfortable around other people easily. Maybe she is more shy or actually cares about what a specific person thinks about her because she likes that person.
    Or maybe she's not a virgin, but still needs time to build trust and feel comfortable with someone new.
    The guy being a virgin has absolutely nothing to do with it, but the fact he's experienced could be either good or bad, depending on the girl.

    Conversely, if a girl who usually has casual sex would immediately jump into bed with the new virgin guy, maybe he would be all happy at first, but chances are that he would start wondering if he was just another guy. Girls do this too, but generally we react differently talking about it, wanting reassurance and so on. Usually guys don't want to show their weak side and probably start creating this image in their minds which eventually leads to the break up.
    Basically, usually engaging in casual sex is a no-win situation for both genders when it comes to serious relationships and the other partner knows about it.

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    • Some good points, but this:

      'Think that you really want to say is that you think it's unfair that most women, who in general could have casual sex every night or several times a day with any random guys they meet, and yet choose not to. While it's not that easy for men?
      And why I can eat this strawberry cake today, and choose not to eat the same cake tomorrow. Why oh why.'

      Isn't really what I was arguing. For example,

      'most women, who in general could have casual sex every night or several times a day with any random guys they meet, and yet choose not to. '

      It's not that they should sleep with any and every random fucker. It's that they choose certain types of men for their casual sex encounters and that it usually has nothing to do with whether they are attracted. They just choose the asshole because he has all these manipulative strategies that let's him cut the cue. Then they tell the nice guy it's because he's not really that nice as if female intuition was razor sharp.

    • realistically, it's not because if it was they would be better at identifying the assholes! the fake nice guys are mice compared to some of the toe rags that get laid - e. g. men that pimp out girls by telling them some sob story about how they owe money to some drug dealer.

      'why I can eat this strawberry cake today, and choose not to eat the same cake tomorrow. '

      point is, women like this are treating different kinds of men differently. and often it's for negative reasons - they are not as sexually attracted to the nice guy but want to keep him in a quasi-platonic relationship mostly because he's convenient and a safe bet.

  • Your logic is that it is unfair for women to make "nice" guys wait because they have got burned by players.

    First off, there is NO way for a woman to tell whether a guy is interested in her for more than sex, until after it happens.

    Player types do no go around with "I am an arsehole" tattooed on their foreheads. It's f*cking ridiculous when men on G@G tell women to pick better guys to sleep with. I have been involved with confident men who wanted a relationship with me, and I have also been used by a shy stereotypical "nice" guy, in the past.

    Some guys will be nice because they want more, some guys will be nice because they just want sex. There is no way for a woman to tell, so the best filtering mechanism that exists is assuming that guys who only want sex will get bored and move on to a different target if you wait. Women would far prefer that the guy just looking for sex got bored and moved on, rather than finding out that he was a player after she has sex with him.

    Also, if a woman is doing this, it's a sign that she DOESN'T want to be promiscuous. She's making the guy wait because she doesn't want to be used for a one night stand and have that needlessly add to her partner count.

    Most women do not enjoy being promiscuous and racking up numbers and many women's partner counts would be far lower if more men were honest about the fact that they didn't want a relationships.

    Also, your logic sounds extremely rape-y: That if a woman has had sex before, and isn't a virgin, she therefore owes it to you to drop her knickers after a few dates? So not being a virgin means a woman has no right to wait until she trusts a guy to have sex?

    With this level of entitlement, I am not surprised that you are having trouble finding a woman who wants to sleep with you!

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    • 'Player types do no go around with "I am an arsehole" tattooed on their foreheads. It's f*cking ridiculous when men on G@G tell women to pick better guys to sleep with. I have been involved with confident men who wanted a relationship with me, and I have also been used by a shy stereotypical "nice" guy, in the past.'

      From what I've heard, women have excellent intuition and are able to sift through men with manipulative traits and men without, for example, you infer this yourself:

      'With this level of entitlement, I am not surprised that you are having trouble finding a woman who wants to sleep with you!'

      Is it just entitlement that puts women off? Or are women adept at spotting a sociopath also?

      'your logic sounds extremely rape-y'

      Basically, women should be free to do as they please but men are also free to pass judgement. Men are also free to explain (objectively) how this dating game really is a lose lose situation.

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    • It's not a "break up" if the guy never had any intention of having a relationship, but was pretending that was what he wanted until he got sex.

      This will be my last post on this, as I feel my attempts to explain that the reasons women end up being warey of having sex at an early stage, stem from self preservation rather than some weird manipulative scheme you guys have contrived in your heads, are falling on deaf ears.

      Good luck with blaming women for why you guys are not getting laid.

      Also, feel free to go nuts with your responses, as I won't be reading them.

    • ' It's not a "break up" if the guy never had any intention of having a relationship, but was pretending that was what he wanted until he got sex. '

      Assuming the sex was what he wanted, or maybe he just wanted to be treated the same as the other sexual partners the woman had in the past. He knows intuitively that the woman simply isn't as sexually attracted to him as the other partners.

  • @the_rake So, I have a question for you. If I haven't been with a lot of men, even dated a lot of men, because I want to meet a nice guy, and the new person I am seeing chooses to flirt with other girls, and keep his options open, when we are supposed to be seeing each other, what exactly does that mean, in terms of men and women and the double standard account?

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    • then that's a completely different situation from what I highlighted in the take: if I understood correctly, then you as an inexperienced woman are demanding that the player does not 'pump and dump'. When the good men pump and dump, it is usually because they too are inexperienced and not ready to be in a relationship with someone (more) experienced then themselves.

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    • Okay, you're welcome. Good luck.

    • @ArtDent Thanks. He gets back Friday. I may need it. :P

  • Men who sleep around are not my enemies, I have no problem with a guy who does this. As long as he is up front about it. As much as it is his right to sleep around, I have a right to want a committed relationship.

    The way I look at it is this: we both owe it to ourselves to be open and honest about what we want. The problem lies in that there are people who deceive to get what they want from the other person. I've had this happen many times in relationships, where there is a guy who is not interested in a relationship. But says he is in order to get with me. I think we are monogamous, but he's still seeing other people behind my back.

    Even though I like being in a monogamous relationship, I have no problem with people who want to sleep around. Just as long as they don't try to use me and deceive me into thinking they want to be with me in a relationship.

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    • 'As long as he is up front about it'

      Unfortunately, this is not necessarily a successful mating strategy, especially not for the sexually inexperienced men I highlighted in the mytake who need more experience under their belt before they sacrifice their masculinity by committing to a woman with significantly more sexual experience than them.

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    • because they have had their heart broken so many times by people who lie because they just want sex. Lying is never justified to get sex.

      There are plenty of women who will sleep with sexually inexperienced men. I think it's more of an issue for some of the men themselves than it is for women.

    • The thing is, sexually inexperienced men or men in general do not have to commit to anyone if they don't want to. But at least be honest about it. From what I have heard from talking to different people, there are plenty of people out there who do the no strings attached thing. There are apps like Tinder for hooking up too. Sure it takes some work to find someone to hook up with, but that's life. It also takes time to find a person worth being in a relationship with too. It's just a part of the dating or hook up scene.

  • I kind of think anyone is justified in not wanting monogamy if it's their personal preference. Just don't get involved with someone who wants a monogamous relationship. I only have issues with people not being monogamous when they're in a committed relationship and led someone into thinking that's the type of relationship they wanted and then changed their mind. That's more than just not wanting to be in a committed relationship, that's just being a jerk to someone.

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    • more men would probably be willing to settle into monogamous relationships if the woman hadn't already been around the block a few times.

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    • @the_rake That's not entirely a true idea of all men. Recently, I've met a guy who was all about non committed relationships, and when we met, I honest with him about not having been with a lot if guys. So, sometimes, it's just a "because I can" type of attitude. :(

    • @shortandsweet24

      Right, so that was a different case scenario where there were no double standards being imposed - assuming this guy was a successful player.

  • While I agree with some of this (mostly that there a lot of double standards in dating), there are a couple of things I have issues with. Mainly, the idea that men are being 'strung along' if a woman wants to wait for sex. If you want sex immediately, and she doesn't, you have to decide whether you actually care about her enough to wait until she's comfortable, or if you should just leave her, because sex matters more to you than her comfort.

    I'd also like to add that not all double standards are in favour of women. For example, it's acceptable for a man to have had many sexual partners, but unacceptable for a woman to have as many. There's also the issue of women being seen as crazy or high maintenance if they express their feelings or needs in a relationship, while it's seen as a good thing for men to open up about it.

    I'm just saying, these things go both ways.

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    • 'If you want sex immediately, and she doesn't, you have to decide whether you actually care about her enough to wait until she's comfortable, or if you should just leave her, because sex matters more to you than her comfort.'

      You've also got to factor into consideration whether or not there's likely to be a woman that will be reasonable about sex or not.

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    • Sorry, no, that's not correct. People do not stay in abusive relationships because of the 'highs and lows'. They stay because they're scared, and they don't know how to escape. Don't you dare trivialise such a traumatic experience.

      These aren't assumptions, these are observations. You're clearly either delusional, mentally deficient, or just a shit human being. No other type of person would hold the views that you do.

    • 'People do not stay in abusive relationships because of the 'highs and lows'. They stay because they're scared, and they don't know how to escape.'

      I did not say all women, merely that there ARE women out there with masochistic tendencies.

  • Being pumped and dumped is a lot worse than waiting for sex only to find out before you have sex that they are a jerk, at least when the girl waits she does not have sex with him.

    I have been pumped and dumped because I believed the words of the last guy who told me we were dating and after we had sex he verbally abused me and told me he lied.

    Now that I don't put up with that drama and I wait for sex it's easy for me to tell early who is full of shit and I can cut off assholes.

    I would rather be safe than sorry. Recently I met an asshole. I never had sex with him and I was getting to know him and within the first week he revealed his true self as an asshole when he seemed sweet at the beginning

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    • Basically I explained this to another anonymous user:

      'If he's a genuinely nice guy and sexually inexperienced and you've already slept around, maybe you SHOULDN'T expect him to commit to a relationship. Think how inadequate he's going to feel in 10 or 15 years when he got married as a virgin to a woman that's already been round the block a few times. Maybe it's actually reasonable to expect that this guy is going to want to at the very least get some experience under his belt before he goes ahead and marries a woman with such little former integrity.'

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    • I didn't say you did. Just commending you for the fact you wouldn't apply this absurd 'make him wait' philosophy to an inexperienced or otherwise good guy.

    • 'It's funny making players wait, it's like watching a bank robber get arrested and the bank robber lies and says he works there lol'

      yeah, the proficient players that have had their way with women in the past need to settle down. this is actually good for them.

  • "What's wrong with this? For one thing, it's plain hypocrisy: women can sleep with whomever they want to ("go feminism!") "

    Ever heard of slut shaming? Happens all the time.
    Women are ostracized for wanting to have casual partners. It's good to hear that men are, too. Equal playing field. Do whatever you want to, but don't complain if others don't agree with it. You can make your own choices and live with the consequences of them.

    Also, those things that a typical woman says (at the top of your take) are said mostly by people who do not sleep around. It's not unfair for a woman to take sex seriously and expect her partner to take sex seriously, too. And there are a lot of cases where guys want to wait, too. It's not just a woman thing.

    You are reading too much into all this.

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    • 'Ever heard of slut shaming? Happens all the time.'

      Yep, and it's a good thing it happens. Like I explained to one of the other girls,

      ' there are good-men into their thirties who maintained their integrity throughout their twenties and did not act like assholes just to get romantic and sexual experience with women. In spite of making an active effort to respectfully meet and attract women that were roughly the same age, the same attractiveness and shared many of the same commonalities, they were unsuccessful. Now that they are in their thirties, they do NOT want to nose dive into a long-term committed relationship with a manipulative, scheming woman that has been around the block a few times and with whom they share very little emotional or physical chemistry with. This is especially not the case if they are going to wind up 10, or 15 years down the road with two kids, a mortgage and the emotional baggage of insecurities arising from their own sexual inadequacy (read: the fact they

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    • Lol... and I'm sure as fuck will never settle down. I'm also a poly. Monogamy is dead in my world.

    • @Scrambledagain 'And women want to know why men leave them for a "younger" model.'

      It's because they created those men back in their twenties, lol.

  • I'm not promiscuous I think it's disgusting. I only want one partner in my life and one partner only.

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  • Wow this is insanely coincidental. I've been wanting to ask a particular question based off a statement @tyber1 says: "I hate that women wait to have sex when they are considering a guy for something serious. There's something really backwards and machiavellian about having casual sex with malignant personalities and making decent guys wait." This too I do believe that's why I do not have sex unless i'll never see them again, only because I am human and want sex. However every guy I meet I cannot (wont) have sex with (unless I see boyfriend potential and I like them etc. but very rare lol). So my main thing is, how is someone (a woman) supposed to know the guy who turned out to be her boyfriend because she waited; wouldn't be the same guy who 'pumped and dumped' only because she gave it too early. Another senerio: If every nice guy I meet is boyfriend material and I have sex with every single one of them... way too early... it'd be more on the side of them not wanting to date me? I feel like nice guys only complain because they don't get sex earlier but WHATS WRONG WITH ESTABLISHING A STRONG RELATIONSHIP BEFORE THE SEX? I hear its way better then a pump and dump!! I hope I made some kind of sense

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    • Off topic but I would be crushed if I had sex with a nice guy and he pumped and dumped so thats why women prefer to 'establish' something. Other girls have sex with hot men and by seeing these players as problems, but we go back into women being nutures and wanting to change a man which they cannot do which then goes back into why women want to establish relationships first! lol

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    • My point being that the biggest complain I see from guys about waiting, is the woman holding the guy to a different set of standards than the guys she slept with right away. If a woman never has sex before the six month mark, it might not be compatible for every guy, but they shouldn't find it insulting. If the woman has had plenty of casual sex partners, then starts making a guy jump through hoops to be with her, then he will see her as playing games, or leading him on since he already knows she is okay with sleeping with guys right away.

      For the most part I would say women just shouldn't hold guys to different standards when it comes to sex. Then I don't think most guys would have a problem with a woman wanting to establish a strong relationship before sex. At that point it would be up to personal compatibility I hope that answers your question.

    • @heavensgift2girls 'For the most part I would say women just shouldn't hold guys to different standards when it comes to sex. Then I don't think most guys would have a problem with a woman wanting to establish a strong relationship before sex. At that point it would be up to personal compatibility I hope that answers your question.'

      Totally.

  • Monogamy goes against nature anyways. If anyone disagrees, they are extremely ignorant of their own biology.

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    • Sure, but what's 'natural' is not necessarily compatible with ethical citizenship.

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    • @OpenClose This has nothing to do with how active each gender's sex drive is. Both must be fairly high in order for evolutionary purposes. My point is that, it is "natural" in the sense that it is biological. I don't mean how long polygamy was practised or has been around. From an evolutionary perspective, concerning natural selection, a man is polygamous.

    • @Mekkalyn I'm not saying polygamy is and should be practised by everyone. Monogamy fits better for some people, and many are happy with it. HOWEVER, that being said, a man is by an evolutionary definition more polygamous. THAT is biological. A male's harmones and sex drive are much higher across their lifetime than the average females, which fits with Darwin's natural selection. In order to survive, man must produce, the most optimal condition for that to happen would be a polygamous situation. Society can change how we feel about it but it does not change "nature". Polygomy doesn't just mean marriage or "feeling" for someone, it can be purely sexual. Which still in our day in age is not unheard of and is very common (Cheatings, mistresses, brothels, etc)

  • I don't understand why you have to justify yourself for this, if you don't want to be in a monogamous relationship then that's your call but there are consequences to every choice you make so be prepared to face ridicule/criticism from others. Also, women who have casual sex are not exempt from judgement either, many are still very much slut shamed.

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    • 'I don't understand why you have to justify yourself for this, if you don't want to be in a monogamous relationship then that's your call but there are consequences to every choice you make so be prepared to face ridicule/criticism from others.'

      Just pointing out the fact much of this ridicule/criticism is full of double standards.

      'women who have casual sex are not exempt from judgement either, many are still very much slut shamed'

      A lot of these women are sleeping with assholes, etc.

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    • I'm not saying generalizations aren't okay to make but they can often be faulty of the hasty generalization fallacy, as is yours due to your small sampling simply based on from your experiences (anecdotal) and anecdotal evidence is NOT accepted as proper evidence as I previously mentioned because they are prone to human error since the human mind can be very fallible.
      "Generalizations are useful because with them you don't need to study every single thing in a class before you make a conclusion. [...] "However, you never REALLY know whether your generalization is completely correct until you examine every single [woman]" [...] "Therefore, we must say that a generalization can't be true or false; it can be only strong or weak." www.fallacydetective.com/news/read/generalizations
      So AGAIN, I hope you realize there is nothing factual about what you said. That's about as factual as me saying men are assholes based on the X number of men I've interacted with in the past (anecdotal)

    • I'm aware of the limitations of generalisations. I only use them because of the lack of evidence (barring anecdotal experience) that's available in this particular area. All we can do is relate our personal experiences to one another.

  • Lol I said I wasn't gonna comment but I just can't deal with this kind of mindset. The reasons why a woman has sex with a man can sometimes come off as mysterious. but it isn't really at least not my reasons.
    Having sex with some foolish guy who you have no feelings for but you have physical needs is a woman's choice to do so. This is not every woman but a lot of women do have a one night stand, a fling or a causal sex partner at some point in their lives not all.
    This happens sometimes because they are not meeting any guys they like or have had a series of failed almost relationships.
    Then they may meet at other times a guy they like he is attractive to them they have things in common you want to be around him and you waznt a future with him. You start to emotionally invest and you know mentally you are pretty much all in. So you hesitate to physically invest aka sex as that would be the final nail in your coffin so to speak and you will be vulnerable cause sex means something great when there is feelings.
    It is scary to completely invest in someone emotionally and physically. Having sex with some guy who you could care less about and see no long term future with is no investment at all it is just fulfilling desire.
    I also do not agree with a woman liberally saying she was used for sex especially since sex is pleasurable for women and we want it as much.

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    • also sex is not all a woman has to offer so if she takes a while to have sex with you, dont stress she is spending time with you and at that point you should ask her is she is seeing someone else.
      Who i spend my time with and go out of my way for is an indicator of who i like.
      by the way women do not only have casual relationships with the most handsome guy and a selective few

    • 'Having sex with some foolish guy who you have no feelings for but you have physical needs is a woman's choice to do so.'

      A lot of times these guys will be preferred over the not so foolish men willing to satisfy a woman's physical needs. In fact, the men women choose typically DON'T satisfy their physical needs - foreplay, postponing their own orgasm, etc.

      'they may meet at other times a guy they like he is attractive to them they have things in common you want to be around him and you waznt a future with him.'

      ... so they make him wait for something they have given away so readily before, and he is supposed to feel, special, priviliged, etc.

      'It is scary to completely invest in someone emotionally and physically'

      And yet that's what men are being expected to do (marriage).

      'dont stress she is spending time with you and at that point you should ask her is she is seeing someone else.'

      Some men might have their own reasons for being reluctant to commit in these situations.

    • 'Who i spend my time with and go out of my way for is an indicator of who i like.
      by the way women do not only have casual relationships with the most handsome guy and a selective few'

      Lots of statistics and social experiments show otherwise:

      www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q1739712-are-women-hypergamous

      www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q1751987-does-the-80-20-rule-theory-explains-a-lot-of-today-s-problems-among

  • "Nobody gets laid but models, celebs and rich guys"

    Totally untrue, man. GAG is not the real world and average joes have plenty of sex - casual and committed. Generally with women in their range of looks, but they're out there getting it.

    Players vs guys having sex are like gold diggers vs SAHM - it's the manipulation that's the problem.

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    • Can you give me a single instance I specifically inferred that, or are you just putting words in my mouth.

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    • Men are more free to express themselves on the internet, so in that way it's more real than the real world. Also, because of the internet, more men are comparing experiences.

    • People don't get online to talk with strangers about being happy and things working out, mostly they do to vent about being upset. That colors your perception of how things really are.

      I've been sexually abused and sometimes talk online to others with similar experience... But to base my perception of the world on the experiences ONLY of others who were molested or raped would be a vast mistake. You can't get caught in the online world trap.

  • I've given it up fairly easily and early on in a relationship. Then he lost interest which makes me wonder if I should've made him wait.

    If you don't put out fast enough, you get called stuck up and high maintenance.

    If you put out early on, they call you a whore/slut and never respect you/use that excuse not to take you seriously.

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    • 'I've given it up fairly easily and early on in a relationship. Then he lost interest'

      Don't give it to the wrong guys. Make the right choice next time.

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    • Develop better filter mechanisms.

    • How long did you make him wait? Each guy is different and wants something different, so it's hard to say you did anything wrong. I think what matters is you do what's comfortable for you.

  • Actually the double standard is against women where we're deemed as sluts while men are praised for having game to score

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    • let's be honest. most men do not have the game to score. maybe if women weren't whoring themselves off to such a small minority of men they wouldn't be getting slut-shamed.

    • I don't think anyone should be called a slut. But men who score loads deserved to be praised. Many men can't get sex easily so those who do deserve their credit. I am in awe of those men that constantly get laid. Women don't get this and they don't stop to ask why human trafficking for sex is such massive business, or why prostitutes can demand more money for sex than a lawyer, or why pick up artists, some of them are worth millions from the guys buying their books. I'm more likely to make a million bucks than attract a girl I like. That's how hard it is for me.

    • Men are praised because sex doesn't come easy for men. So when a guy does it consistently he gets praised for having the skill/charm/ and looks to pull it off.

      Girls have their own version to this. You guys praise one another when one of your get a high quality male to commit to you for a boyfriend/Husband.

  • What you are describing women have been doing for centuries. And there's nothing wrong with it, it even used to be sanctioned by law. But thanks to feminism it's not anymore.

    You're complaining that mostly only attractive guys get casual sex and while most have to wait. No kidding. That's reproduction of the fittest.
    I actually can't believe guys are so entitled to think the world owes them casual sex. It's lacking all sense of reality. Or maybe it's failure of seeing someone else's perspective? But do you know how incredibly lucky you are that casual sex is even a consideration

    Here's a lesson in biology. Sex for women is a trade off. Yes it's fun but it's also massively risky. Throughout most of your species's existence a woman that had a child without a man to support her, would have died or at least massively suffered. It doesn't make sense for use to sleep with someone without commitment, no one benefits. Men never had to worry about that. They could have been long gone by the time she knows she's pregnant and even if she knew, there was nothing making him help her. Sex for you has no risks. That's why you want it, all the time. And that's ok. But don't that make that sound normal and ok but what women do somehow bad and absurd.

    Cold hard reality is, men have to proof their worth to have sex, because women carry the main burden. It always been that way and always will. So yes there is such as being used for sex.
    And men aren't demonized for sleeping around, they're praised for it. Men who lie to get laid are demonized, because well they're liars

    So much more wrong with your take but I'll leave it at that

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    • 'You're complaining that mostly only attractive guys get casual sex and while most have to wait. No kidding. That's reproduction of the fittest.'

      Sure, it's perfectly 'normal'. Just don't expect the men that have been subjugated to 'marriage only / vanilla sex with girls below their league' arrangements to be content with, or abide by those social norms.

      'reproduction of the fittest.'

      Yet, reproduction of the fittest seems to be something that applies more to men than women - the latter of whom tend to be more hypergamous and polygynous on the whole:

      www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q1751987-does-the-80-20-rule-theory-explains-a-lot-of-today-s-problems-among

      www.girlsaskguys.com/.../q1739712-are-women-hypergamous

      'I actually can't believe guys are so entitled to think the world owes them casual sex. '

      Actually, most of them are just pointing out the double standards that exist and the simple fact that men typically date 'down' while women date 'up'.

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    • a comment you didn't agree with at the time

    • only with some of the details

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What Guys Said 27

  • In other words, monogamy assumes that both parties will be adhering to traditional roles. And while women long ago neglected their traditional roles via the parasitic society-ender known as feminism, men are still held accountable to their traditional roles. So what this means in a marriage is that a man is still expected to work like a dog, remain faithful to his wife, and take care of his family while it is perfectly okay for his wife to be unfaithful, neglect her duties as a mother, deny him sex, and making monogamy miserable in all ways possible.

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  • It's justified because many women are evil and will stab a guy in the back. For any guy who has been betrayed by a woman we know all too well that it's just too risky to stay with the same woman for long.

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  • This makes no sense.

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    • feel free to make a (valued) contribution.

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    • 'If a woman makes a choice not to be promiscuous then what does it matter that the world at large is promiscuous?'

      Ok, but similarly you can't expect men to put up with her double standards. And this further explains the title of the article: 'why men are sometimes justified in avoiding monogamy'.

      'the goal isn't to punish a type of man but instead maintain personal integrity.'

      But this is the after-effect - intended or not.

      'These two completely contradict.'

      I said, 'men are demonised for owning their sexual desires ' (in the context which I'm describing - e. g. go through the comments on this article and read them) and that the notion that society glorifies the player is false or at least in this notion, hence why I said,

      'this is not strictly true, or if it is true it is only true after the fact'

    • 'So she had sex with hot guy X 4 years ago on the drop of a dime, that was 4 years ago, and you are not entitled to the same thing.'

      Didn't say I am entitled, but I would be wondering,

      a) am I as attractive to this woman as men she's been with in the past
      b) if she is acting on the premise of morality / personal integrity, is there really any ethical consistency behind these notions?

      'Irony. Pure. Irony... They are.'

      Way to deliberately misinterpret what I was saying.

  • TFW you realize humans were not, are not and never will be monogamous.

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    • BS. There is no scientific proof in that.

    • @RationalLioness Ignorance these days. Humans are naturally polygamous. Marriage was never even about love, it was about property. I'm also not saying humans are all polygamists either, there's a spectrum but all throughout human history monogamy has been the more prevalent, look at our ancestors.

  • Excellent take.

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  • Before I state this opinion, I would like to say that there are exceptions to every rule. What what I have experienced, seen, and heard from both genders whether it be gag, in real life, or otherwise is that girls go for the bad boys in their late teens to late 20's. The hot and exciting guy whom they have hot sex with. Then once they are 30+ they become desperate, trying to settle down with whomever they can get. For example a nerd who is financially stable. Girls sexual market value (or smv) peaks around their late 20's and decreases like a penny stock. Average guys don't get the time of day from girls their age until their late 20's - early 30's or unless they are rich or some sort. Then they start looking pretty good to these same girls. I understand the feeling where it's not fair as a guy that YOU have to wait for sex for months even years when the "bad boy" got it quickly. It's almost like a game or some sort. Now that I think about it, the "players" have a manipulative trait which girls can identify. Then they try to change the player and get the resources. I have done some research on the animal kingdom and noticed some interesting things that are relative. Do some research. Anyways, my problem isn't when the women sleep with guys who are players or anything like that, because with any choice you make you have consequences and it will catch up to you. My problem is when people make stupid mistakes and then blame other people or take it out on someone else. If your a guy and you just want to get laid, then you should just be the "player" and treat girls like crap. That will get you laid faster. Works most of the time. It's counterintuitive and do I personally agree with it? No, but that's how it is out there generally. I agree with the marriage. A 50% rate divorce where 69% of women initiate it. Not to mention alimony (even forever in some states like California if you marry for 10 years) and child support if you have a kid. And to get half or more taken from you, especially if your a CEO of a company is bs. There is no benefit for a man getting married. The courts are against men and anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves. That's why I haven't been dating lately. A lot of bulkshit and games out there. I don't need drama of any kind and I am up to the point where I don't tolerate certain things and I call people out on their bulkshit. I say it how it is and I don't care about being politically correct. Now I will wait for the rebuttals.

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  • I don't have a problem with a single woman that goes out for one night stands with the so called players or alpha men and then seeks a relationship with me and wants to make me wait. I've had women offer me sex early and I have honestly felt insulted. I want a woman that values me for more than my penis. I'm more than just a reproductive organ and I get offended when women objectify me in such a manner that they debase my character.

    If a woman has a lively past and then decides she wants to date me but doesn't want to fuck things up with me and she makes me wait for sex, good for her, she knows me well because she'd have to stupid to offer me sex as a means to lock me into a relationship. I cannot be "bought" with sex, it takes more than a reproductive organ to make me want to commit to a woman.

    As long as the woman isn't settling for me and genuinely wants to be with me then that's all that matters, I don't care about her sexual past, I don't even want to know about it. As long as she shows me she's a good woman that respects me and genuinely wants to be with me then that's all that I care about.

    (Oh and I am one of those inexperienced men you speak about)

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    • 'Oh and I am one of those inexperienced men you speak about'

      Right, so maybe I should have mentioned in the original article that not all inexperienced men & virgins care if they wind up in a long-term relationship or marrying a woman that blowbanged 40 dicks one time. That's because they see things in a more open-minded way and have virtually no notion of pride or masculinity.

    • Most women have blowbanged 40 guys though, you're exaggerating and crediting women with far too much sexual prowess.

      Most women don't have high numbers like 40 or 30, they have anywhere from 10-15 and that's not much in my opinion. If a woman in 14 years of being legal to have sex has slept with 10 guys, then that's less than a one sexual partner year.

      I would argue that I don't lack pride or masculinity as much as you lack security within yourself. It's always the men that get very little sex that criticize everyone that has sex or who has had a sexual past. Why begrudge others what you cannot get yourself?

    • 'I would argue that I don't lack pride or masculinity as much as you lack security within yourself. It's always the men that get very little sex that criticize everyone that has sex or who has had a sexual past. Why begrudge others what you cannot get yourself?'

      Why does this have to be about me? You don't know what I do or do not get.

      I'm simply pointing out that there's a lot of men who would feel belittled and inadequate to be in a relationship where the sexual experience was unilaterally biased in favour of the woman. ESPECIALLY, if the guy was inexperienced or a virgin. It doesn't have to be 40 women. It could just as easily be ten. Point is, women shouldn't be playing these games with said men - it is highly manipulative.

  • I rarely if ever experience this in my social circle or with the people I know. It's just never an issue. I don't meet any women who string a guy along with the promise of sex in an attempt to force them to commit. Most women I meet and get to know have only good will towards a potential partner.

    I have no clue why my environment is so much different from some of you guys. Is it because I get to know some of the women I meet in a platonic way?
    Is it because I see them as having similar basic needs?
    Am I gifted with some ability to find and meet good people and ignite the awful ones?
    Do I just hang out I. The right social circles?

    I'm not discrediting your experience. These scenarios and people you bring up likely do exist.
    But I'd be more than willing to shoo off any asshole who tries to apply these broad sweeping brushes to the fantastic women I've met. Both the ones who are my exes and the ones who have been my friends.
    I'd do the same for my friends who are guys who have proven themselves good people.

    I hope one day you too meet and befriend people like I have. Perhaps it would change your perspective on what partners really want and who they are as people.

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    • 'These scenarios and people you bring up likely do exist.'

      Yes, they do.

  • They say that women have power to instigate sex and men have the power to instigate committal. When a woman makes a guy wait for sex its her choice, she's repsected etc... Whe a guy doesn't commit to a woma he's a player/womaniser/*ick etc.. Double standards. Just set an ultimatum early on and if they decide to adhear to it then great. If not, move on, there's seemingly infinite women. People say if you care for someone you will wait. Well Im more inclined to care for someone who cares for me.

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    • ' If not, move on, there's seemingly infinite women. '

      This is true but a significant number are the way I describe in the article.

    • That's no double standard. You lack common sense. If a guy does not want to commit, there's likely a reason. If he's not ready for commitment, that does not make him any of those names. If he states that he's not ready but he's fucking around with other people, it shows that he's a dirty liar. If he simply states that he wants to play the field, again nothing wrong. Many people have common sense and understand this. I don't know why a bunch of you guys on GAG do not.

    • @RationalLioness the problem is its not as clear cut as a guy saying periodically whether he wants a relationship or a girl saying exactly when she's willing to have sex. You yourself said ambiguity in such pursuits or lack there of equate to being a dirty liar. When you're on a first date do you say to the person "I am willing to have sex after x amount of time" ?

  • The only consequence for a guy manipulating a girl to get laid, is that he gets laid. Fuck the rules. Nice guys die with their ducks in their hands listening to "the rules"

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  • Wow. I think you're making this WAAAAAAY more complicated than you need to. It's really quite simple: You see a girl and you want to date her, fuck her, marry her, whatever. You want something from her. You need to figure out what you can bring to the table. What does SHE want? And you need to be that guy. Where many guys fail is the focus on what they THINK she should want rather taking the time to learn what the girl actually DOES want. And as such they work on all the wrong aspects of themselves and ignore all the right ones.

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    • 'I think you're making this WAAAAAAY more complicated than you need to'

      Actually, nah I see it quite simply - women are only interested in men with manipulative or sociopathic tendencies for one night stands. When it comes to long term relationships, they will 'settle' for a provider male that will help raise the kids from the last abusive relationship that failed.

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    • well, personally I do all of those things, and I know a lot of other guys that do those things and they're not necessarily knee deep in clunge because of it.

    • I wouldn't suggest pursuing the girl for dishonest reasons or changing yourself for any woman though.

  • "This advice is neither fair nor practical in a commercialized world where more and more women are being promiscuous, especially favoring a small minority of high status males - celebrities, very attractive models, and wealthy, successful men"? How is it fair when men cheated in the first place? More and more women wouldn't be promiscuous if the men weren't cheating douchebags to begin with.

    "What's wrong with this? For one thing, it's plain hypocrisy: women can sleep with whomever they want to". Who in the hell ever said women could sleep with whomever they wanted to? Women should be held in the same regard as men when it comes to having sex. If a man allows a woman to cheat/have sex with many men, then he's both a dumbass and a sucker and that is his problem. If a woman said that she could be a slut, then the man should say "See you later, bitch! Let the door slam on your dirty ass on the way out!"

    This is the PLAYER'S way of putting the pussy on a pedestal. Why? I'm asking you why.

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    • 'Who in the hell ever said women could sleep with whomever they wanted to? ... If a man allows a woman to cheat/have sex with many men, then he's both a dumbass and a sucker and that is his problem.'

      And I never said otherwise. It's promiscuity both inside AND outside relationships that's the problem. Women are fucking around and then demanding good men settle down with them, hence preaching a double standard.

      Sure you can say, "well so what, what's the problem? just say, NEXT" but that's the thing: who are you nexting her for? The next woman that's going to do the same thing. Eventually these guys are gonna have to settle for these women that are the sloppy seconds of some manipulative douchebag with sociopathic tendencies who just happened to get his foot in the door first.

    • Then don't be with a woman. Enjoy your life on your own. If women are gonna be that way, then let them be stupid and be that way. Nobody is forcing you to be with a woman. If they fuck around, then let them. I'd rather not fuck a woman that's been fucking around than to fuck a woman who hasn't fucked. I'd "next" a woman for a better life, whether it's with another woman or not.

    • ' Then don't be with a woman. Enjoy your life on your own. '

      I think lots of men are seeing things this way, hence MGTOW (men going their own way). In the mean time, there's no reason not to sit back from an objective perspective and point out some of the toxic decision making that's taking place.

  • Anybody who doesn't want monogamy is justified. No crazy ideologies are needed. Just be upfront about it

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  • I guess I'll forever be female cause I'm actually the one that makes HER wait. I'm in a relationship for a reason, not to just fuck. I don't roll with that shit. I feel like if you can't wait a couple months without sex, just move on or grow up. It isn't killing anything but your pride. Besides, you've lived without sex for years before losing your virginity. Won't kill you to wait a few months, lol.

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    • Ok man, if you don't care much about the difference in sexual experience / integrity before you dive into a committed relationship, good on you.

    • Not really, no. I get to know a girl a bit first before diving into a relationship anyway. By then I can usually tell if she's the promiscuous type. Otherwise we date and I figure out eventually. It's really not that hard to tell if you take the time to actually talk to her and get to know her first, rather than diving into fucking her THEN trying to claim she never told you anything. You never knew her anyway...

  • I'm not a fan of most womanizers, to be honest. But I consider them more equitible than gold-diggers by a long shot. When a guy wants to have sex, a girl gets to have sex, too. They both get something out of it.

    With a gold digger, the guy is actively losing money and the girl is gaining it. It's a one-way deal.

    That being said, one of my good friends is really quite the womanizer, or at least he was. But it didn't bother me, because he wasn't a jerk. And he wasn't attracting girls by being a jerk. He is a goofy computer geek who likes to talk about spirituality and tech, and that's what the girls he hooks up with LIKE about him.

    And I liked his views on women, too. He didn't preach some bullshit about being an aloof "alpha male" bad boy or any BS like that. His point was that women want their *whole* selves to be lusted after, appearance comments are too shallow. And they want their sexuality to be respected and appreciated, rather than some sort of end-game or some form of "giving in."

    The fact that girls would go for a goofy computer geek, who respects women, and is an anti-asshole, reminds me that there are girls out there with decent taste in men.

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    • 'The fact that girls would go for a goofy computer geek, who respects women, and is an anti-asshole, reminds me that there are girls out there with decent taste in men'

      Too bad there's not more of them.

  • To address your aside... The correct phrase is "eat your cake and have it too," not the other way around. It means once you eat it, it's gone and you no longer have cake... You pick one or the other, you can't have it both ways.

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    • yeah, I know. I just like to pick apart the expression when it doesn't suit me.

  • My fiancée and I are both virgins, and neither of us have any regrets about getting married and having only one partner for life.

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  • I don't think guys should be monogamy based, until they find that woman worth going that route for.

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    • Sure. But not many women are truly worth it in this day and age - and they get snapped up pretty quick.

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    • I think eventually you get to a stage where you're getting what you want and you don't really care anymore. before that though, there's definitely that psychological hurdle to overcome.

  • I get what you're saying but you have to see things for girls' perspective too. You say, "For one thing, it's plain hypocrisy: women can sleep with whomever they want to ("go feminism!") while men are demonized for owning their sexual desires".

    It's not really like that. Woman are shamed and considered worthless when they sleep around, so clearly they are demonized for having sexual desires. Many men don't respect women who sleep on a first date, so how can women NOT make guys wait, when they know they will be judged for having sex too soon. And there are lots of girls who don't sleep around, and when in relationship, they need time to feel comfortable enough to have sex. And such girls don't do it to torture the guy with waiting, they just can't open up sexually until they know the guy. There ARE lots of guys out there who are ready to use women for sex (it IS using them when you lead them on, pretend that you care, let them fall for you while you were only after sex).

    I don't think anyone should be shamed for having one night stands, as long as they're safe and don't lead anyone on.

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    • 'you have to see things for girls' perspective too.'

      Contrary to public opinion, society emphasises the female perspective a LOT more strongly than the male one. Why? Simple, because men are the initiators, so they are seen in an aggressive light.

      'Woman are shamed and considered worthless when they sleep around, so clearly they are demonized for having sexual desires.'

      It's generally because of the types of guys and types of behaviour that they are typically rewarding when they're sleeping around.

      ' Many men don't respect women who sleep on a first date, '

      And yet, these are the guys more likely to get sex on a first date. It certainly isn't the feminist men that respect the woman's equality and freedom of sexual expression.

      'And there are lots of girls who don't sleep around, and when in relationship, they need time to feel comfortable enough to have sex. '

      That's perfectly fine and acceptable if they're not promiscuous otherwise.

  • If a guy doesn't want a monogamous relationship, fine. However, that doesn't give him an excuse to play with a girl's heart or cheat. He would be a man and be honest about what he wants.

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