Why do people believe they have "souls" and that there is an "afterlife", when it is obviously not plausible? Our consciousness is in our BRAIN?

[Mesonfielde]

I don't really get why anyone would claim that there is an afterlife. Your consciousness is defined by your reactions to events and stimuli based on data you've collected, and this processing is done by your brain.

Basically, the person you are now is just how your brain makes decisions in given scenarios, and how it reacts to certain scenarios.

Therefore, without your brain, which is a purely material thing within your skull, driven by electric impulses - without it, "you" as a person cannot exist.

Therefore, souls cannot exist, and if souls cannot exist, then neither does the afterlife.

Therefore, we should value our lives for what it is NOW, rather than hope it'll get better later. Because apparently after death, all there is is void.

So why do people still think they should be preparing for their next life, when it's quite obvious that this is their one and only life they have?

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I'm starting to think every girl on this website is religious and just aren't willing to put their 5 cents in or something.

[RedThread]

I have a hard time believing in any kind of afterlife too. Thinking without a brain to me is like digesting food without a stomach.. Most people don't believe we can keep digesting food if we lack the organ that digests food but many people believe that without our brain, which processes everything in our bodies, that somehow we can keep on experiencing and thinking without that organ. I just don't see how that's possible. I mean even in the field of neuroscience and brain damage it is incredible the type of fragmentation of the brain that can occur when it's damaged.. People can cease to remember faces but recognize names and other wild stuff.. It isn't like the person's soul is trying to force the words out but the damaged brain won't let it.. It's literally the brain is damaged and they lack the power or access to that type of information. Now I'm supposed to believe at death that somehow that fragmentation in life caused by brain damage is supposed to repair itself and keep on thinking and feeling and processing after death? That's a pill that's far too big for me to swallow without anything to seriously convince me. I don't understand how the mind/soul and body could possibly be separate.

People have used the "well all matter is energy" argument with me and that's true that all matter is energy but how can we process this energy and electrical synapses without our brains? Why even have a brain if it is unnecessary in the thinking process?

I've also heard that hoax that was debunked about people weighing less after death somehow giving "evidence" that there's a soul. If anybody has anything new or relevant to the discussion I'd be happy to hear it.

[Mesonfielde]

Yeah, I agree. I think the "mind" and the "soul" are just technically the brain's processing power and ability to retain information.

[RedThread]

Right I was just using that analogy because many people usually think of it as a separate entity.

[G-Daz]

This is why it's always senseless debating this when the atheist and the theist don't recognise the beliefs of the opposing worldview.

You just done this precise thing by applying your atheistic reductionist approach to knowledge (one not founded on any degree of evidence, as there is no evidence for naturalism) and applying it to the theist that has no reason to believe in reductionism.

To put it in simpler terms... you begin with the assertion that naturalism is all there is as a concluded fact which it isn't to any degree. Then you proceed to be confused and not comprehend the theist worldview which doesn't adopt yours. I. e... the theist doesn't believe that the material world is all there is. Equally, they believe at death, your consciousness and soul separate from your body when your body shuts down.

This is why this is irrational reasoning, applying an atheist reductionist approach to knowledge and approaching a clearly non reductionist question is akin to trying to figure out roman history using what you did last week as evidence... it's nonsensical

[Mesonfielde]

I will continue to claim that my approach to the question is more rational, but this clearly shows that this is a more fundamental difference in the method of analysis for this question.

[GirlScoutsRevenge]

"driven by electric impulses - without it, "you" as a person cannot exist.

Therefore, souls cannot exist, and if souls cannot exist, then neither does the afterlife"

Sorry Meson, but you know as well as I do that this doesn't mean there is no soul. This is just a logical deduction you have come to.

Truth of the matter is you don't k ow, I don't know, no one apart from those of us who have already passed away can answer that.

I happen to believe in reincarnation of a sorts. Actually, that's far too narrow and restrictive of a description. We are all energy, stardust from when the universe was created, let's not get ahead of ourselves and presume to know all the workings of the universe. I'm confident that there are a million and one things at play that out unevolved brains cannot even comprehend, the fact that my being may live on in another form of energy seems far more logical than it not. It is the natural order of things.

An afterlife as painted in religion though? No. But who can say for sure? Not you or I.

[Mesonfielde]

I'll stay pretty certain instead, though.

[GirlScoutsRevenge]

That's cool, but make sure you leave that 1% as doubt, you aren't that arrogant that you assume to know the secrets of the universe ;)

[Mesonfielde]

... maybe 0.5% doubt

[GirlScoutsRevenge]

I can live with that ;)

[aamy811]

Because people want to believe that if they keep their heads down here they'll eventually get very thing they've ever wanted. Without realizing you get what you want by going out and taking it yourself.
Also others use it as a way to make people do good things. Most people wouldn't give to charity, or help others if they didn't think they were fine a heaven as compensation. They'd just continue to the the selfish asses they are.
People only of things if they're afraid of the consequences

[idkwtftoputhere]

Because people want security knowing their loved ones are somewhere magical and safe in an environment known as "heaven" possibily to reduce feelings of grief/sadness. That's why people will often say things such as: "your _____ is still watching over you so don't worry"
Better to put it that way then tell someone who suffered a tragic death of a loved one by telling them they're rotting flesh is being eaten by a multitudinous number of bacteria.

[idkwtftoputhere]

Also, people generally desire a reward for doing good deeds in this world lol idfk, just my 2 cents.

[GirlsLie]

So you haven't deleted your account yet? lol

I also think you're confusing what people belief as the "afterlife" with something from a zombie movie. Not everyone is under the impression that your brain or body has to function the way it did when you were alive lol

[Mesonfielde]

I wasn't actually planning on deleting my account, lol.

Yeah, the brain and body function like a turned off computer after you die.
They don't

[GirlsLie]

Lol, there's just so many assumptions in your post, you're assuming others think or even care that the body has to function a certain way after death in order for their to be an afterlife and I don't think that's what they're saying and I doubt they're under the impression that will happen, it's pretty obvious that when we die, our bodies do also, even to religious people.

[Mesonfielde]

Well, yes, but your brain is responsible for our personality, as it is indicated by the scenario of Phineas Gage.

[GirlsLie]

I just don't understand why people debate this one way or another honestly because no one knows for sure either way and it's not hurting anything, it all just doesn't seem so black and white to me lol

[Mesonfielde]

Eh, technically I think it's better to look at things according to how they most likely work, and in this case, that's that your personality is directly linked to your brain, therefore without your brain, even if there was an "afterlife", it wouldn't be you. :P

But it really doesn't change anything either way, hence why I'm surprised that @been_waiting or @_Klaatu51 are so eager to take up weapons and swords and consider me a heretic :P

[GirlsLie]

But there's a difference in how things "most likely work" and them being the final say and 100% right. I just don't understand this battle between believers and non believers when nothing is certain is all.

[JackKerouac77]

THIS WAS THE ONLY THING THAT SEPARATED ME FROM THE GINGERS?

ifunnyweb.com/.../...ger-kid-no-soul-meme-face.jpg

[Mesonfielde]

haha

[Mesonfielde]

Seriously though, why doesn't he have EYEBROWS

[JackKerouac77]

BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE A SOUL, MAN!

[Mesonfielde]

Ah. Makes sense.

[MyBestAdvice3995]

I think it's equally convenient to say that the soul is just the brain as it is to say the soul is a separate entity. The truth and the only fact is that we don't know enough. If we don't know enough about consciousness; how can even begin to conceive all the unconscious matters. Hell, we're still discovering things about sleep lol! Say anything of total unconsciousness which is what many seem to think of what death is. The goal is to not jump to any extreme conclusions until we have the facts.

by the way; do you actually believe that the brain can perceive itself?

[Mesonfielde]

Sure, the brain can perceive itself, it is called awareness. The difference between the idea of a soul and the brain is that they claim the soul is immortal and immaterial, just so that it would persist your persona even after death. It is unfortunate that that is not how it works, haha.

I do admit, it took them way too long to realize that sleep is important.

[Longblackveil]

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/850804

This is an interesting article. Honestly this is so out of my wheelhouse that I can't debate it with you. But I don't think you should be so sure. Science is so far from being sure about... Anything really. That's why all these multiverse theories etc are gaining so much ground whereas a long time ago they would be dismissed out of hand. The discovery of quantum mechanics has thrown what we thought we know out the window. Things are clearly not "as they seem"

I believe science is a long way from being able to say with confidence that a soul cannot exist

[Longblackveil]

Also what about near death experiences, when people are pronounced dead but wake up with an experience of this or that? If everything in their body was shut down, how would they experience anything?

[Mesonfielde]

The only real question is, what is it about living things that make them "start living"

Organisms, from viruses to animals to humans, they are all capable of reproducing, create new valid shapes of DNA and create new partial copies of themselves. What is it that makes us start being alive? Why do these biological systems work?

I wouldn't say it's because of a soul. It's like a computer that's been turned on, and is left to run until its components wear down. What jumpstarts the process however is a valid question that I don't know the answer to, nor do I think even the most prominent geneticists would.

[Mesonfielde]

Their brain never shuts down, that's how.

[Mesonfielde]

If their brains shut down, they'd be dead.

[Longblackveil]

Well no, that's my point. That isn't the ONLY real question. There are a lot of questions.

Quantum mechanics is the most proven theory we've ever come up with and it states that Particles don't even have an exact location until they're observed. This seems to suggest that consciousness creates the the world we see around us, and that it is not static. In other words the universe depends on consciousness, not the other way around.

Study biocentrism some, not saying it's true, but my point is that we need to drop this "realist" viewpoint that we currently have. The world is so much more complex than that

[Mesonfielde]

I learned that the Heisenberg indetermination equation (?) just means that we cannot create microscopes that are capable of being so detailed at our size that it'd be able to see both the velocity or the position of a particular particle or something

To be honest, I was never good at physics, the equations weren't intuitive and my teachers at university sucked.

[Longblackveil]

Well we CAN determine the exact location of a particle when we look at it, it's when we're not looking at it, that we cannot be sure where it is. The double slit experiment

[Mesonfielde]

Isn't that about photons though? Electricity doesn't work with photons. I think. This might be an area of physics that I actually don't know.

[Longblackveil]

The double slit experiment was done with an electron particle.

Like I said, I'm way over my head. I've had no kind of education in physics, but I've been watching videos about it online here recently because I find quantum mechanics to be by the most interesting thing science is looking at currently

[Distant]

Afterlife gives people comfort that their life doesn't cease to exist when they die. It also comforts them to assume "karma" or "judgement" will eventually show "bad" people a lesson. If you tell these weak-minded people that there is no life after death and that evil deeds will not be punished, they'll pretty much implode.

I lean towards atheism but I'm not sure there's no "soul" necessarily. We do not yet know what causes consciousness only that it manifests itself as electrical signals. Theoretically, if it's only electricity, artificial intelligence capable of thought, feeling and consciousness is equally as possible.

There's a theory that your consciousness exists separate from the physical reality and that it tunes into this reality via the brain like a radio signal being tuned by a radio tower.

I am not sold on whether or not an afterlife exists but I do consider this life my only guaranteed life.

[Mesonfielde]

Other animals make decisions too. Dogs also exhibit certain behavior elements. Our choices just take more input data into account to create the result which is our final decision. That is what we think of as consciousness. But I think it's still primarily instinct based on what we find to be the optimal solution at a given time. The primary goal of all lifeforms is to maintain their survival, after all. And that is what humans do!

[Distant]

We cannot prove whether or not other animals are conscious. We assume only humans are conscious out of arrogance.

To say that there is no afterlife is faith-based because you do not KNOW which is the basis of my argument.

[Mesonfielde]

The brain is responsible for all perception. Also, animals are conscious, it's just that their brains and vocal cords are less developed and therefore aren't capable of abstraction and speech like we are.

[Distant]

Yes, the brain is responsible for perception. We still don't know what consciousness is or the point in brain-development that makes it possible. Is consciousness possible without a brain? If not, there must have been a point where something was not conscious but its offspring were. That transition is what people attribute to having a "soul".

I would argue that animals have more advanced vocal cords such as the bird's syrinx which is capable of producing two separate sounds at the same time. A "more developed" brain is also arguable since dolphins are capable of producing mental-maps via interpretation of sound waves. All humans are better at doing is abstract thought.

It still doesn't prove whether or not there's an afterlife.

[Mesonfielde]

Fair counterpoint regarding our specialized neocortex.

But you claim that consciousness is more complex than just the result of decisions made by the brain? Maybe you haven't heard of Phineas Gage?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phineas_Gage

[Distant]

No, I claimed not to know what consciousness is - only that it manifests itself as electrical signals. I do believe that, IF consciousness is purely a result of electricity then all other animals (and objects) with a particular amount of cognitive processing-power would be considered conscious. No soul would exist and, therefore, no afterlife would exist.

Although, if consciousness is separate from the body and it simply tunes into a physical reality (or creates one such as in the theory of Biocentrism), then we cannot say if the physical reality is necessary for the consciousness to exist afterward in another reality and, therefore, an afterlife could exist.

Yes, I've heard of Phineas Gage as I'm sure all Psychology 101 students have as well.

I would like to emphasize again that I'm not claiming there is or is not an afterlife. Until we know what causes consciousness, assuming one way or another would be presumptuous.

[Anonymous]

STRONGLY AGREE
I am an athiest surrounded by a Christian family that doesn't condone boyfriends or tattoos.

It disgusts me a little bit because I'm now almost 20 and have to hide my tattoos and dates from a bunch of judgmental people.

The way I see it is were gonna die in 60 years pretty much. Live life to the fullest and be a kind and generous person. You don't need god for that.

And as for consciousness, I'm doing quantum physics in my third year of my BScAdv degree so wish me luck :)

[Mesonfielde]

... while I'm glad to see you're a fellow non-religious person, I have to admit that this question was primarily regarding the existence of ANY kind of afterlife, including the supposed possibility of reincarnation and stuff.

Good luck with quantum physics though, that's interesting if the teacher doesn't suck at what they're doing.

[Opinion Owner]

Haha maybe I was unclear. They're against this stuff because it's a sin. And always talk about not getting into heaven and shit.

I do not believe in reincarnation or any kind of afterlife. We die and that's it.

And I don't believe we have a soul. Our brains determine the essence of who we are as a person. Not our "soul"

[kheserthorpe]

I'm an agnostic.

There's more weird shit in the universe than you allow though.

We really don't know what consciousness is.

Or reality. Do you ever look at empirical results in Quantum mechanics and feel like we are really really avoiding the conclusion that our consciousness impacts things?

[Mesonfielde]

Consciousness is just that we have a well-developed neocortex compared to other animals. But our behavior is still just instinct.

[kheserthorpe]

Do you think the things you say and decisions you make are purely a direct result of the position of the subatomic particles in your brain?

[Mesonfielde]

Yes! Electric impulses, the proper alignment of synapses, and regulation through hormones.

[kheserthorpe]

And you think modern quantum mechanics supports that Newtonian view of reality?

[Mesonfielde]

Not necessarily, but then again, humans work on the level of chemistry and molecular systems.

[kheserthorpe]

Which sits on top of atoms and subatomic particles.

When you look at things like the outcome of various double slit experiments... Isn't there a fairly obvious hypothesis that consciousness is more than simply a feeling inside our brain?

[Mesonfielde]

... no, people just want to delude themselves into thinking there is more to "free will" than there actually is.

[Longblackveil]

That is basically what I'm trying to get at kheserthorpe

Scientists have evidence that the rules of quantum mechanics are not limited to just the subatomic world, but also governs the human scale world. This really breaks wide open the possibilities

[Mesonfielde]

I'm pretty sure most people, under the exact same conditions, being in the same mood, knowing the same amount of information, and being given the same decision to make - they'd make the same decision. Humans are fairly deterministic.

[kheserthorpe]

It's not just humans. That entire model of reality, though s decent estimate, is in fact -not how reality works-

The universe is -not- fully deterministic. That model of reality had been pretty much obliterated.

[Longblackveil]

Correct, I said human scale because it pertains to the discussion were having, but presumably, quantum mechanics governs our entire universe

[Longblackveil]

And the point of mentioning that, is that it appears that conciousness creates reality and that is not just reacting to it.

[apexalpha]

1) there are many realities that science has not and cannot in principle, validate. Logically, this means that we should not take science to be a complete source of knowledge.

2) Has any one ever made a third-person observation of the mind, like other scientific observations? No.

3) should we also reject the existence of things like the passage of time, for example I would guarantee every one would agree that time seems to move faster, even though the atomic clocks seem to oscillate at the same pace,
a consensus observation made by humans.

4) Just because something is not tangible doesn`t mean it do not exist.

[Mesonfielde]

Because time DOES pass at the same rate, it's just that we process less data when we're too tired. It's like when the movie playback is too slow on your computer and there are frameskips.

[apexalpha]

yes time does pass at the same rate i. e. the atoms in moving in space, but your answer does not explain why nearly every one in the world is experiencing fastness of time.

[Mesonfielde]

Because the brain's capability to process information throughout a day is limited, which is why we need to sleep.

[apexalpha]

the brain never sleeps it regulates its circadian rhythm even when we are asleep.
Yet this does not explain the phenomenon of time lapsing faster.

[Mesonfielde]

I told you, it's like frameskips!

Unless you mean that time seems to be passing by faster when you grow older, because that is different. That is due to the ratio of data compared to what is stored.

[apexalpha]

yes I understand you analogy but why would this happen suddenly and without time measuring devices accounting for this?

[Mesonfielde]

Because it's your brain's perception that has the issue of not being able to keep up with the information flow of reality, it's a perception error

[Mesonfielde]

As far as I know, anyways.

[apexalpha]

what about everyone else?

[AleDeEurope]

Unless the soul is the one that makes our brain work. Our body is like a car and without a pilot, it would be useless, but a pilot without a car is still useful, but not as useful as with a car. In this case, the pilot is our soul.

I'm just saying what it could be, but I personally do not believe in all the soul and afterlife stuff, to me it doesn't make sense, and to science it doesn't either.

[Mesonfielde]

Which would make sense, except it would mean that spirits are also born, as the human population is increasing rapidly, and there seems to be more and more souls. In which case, where are souls born? And then what creates souls, what ARE souls, WHY do they attach themselves to children in the womb, etc etc. it becomes Scientology-like quite immediately.

[AleDeEurope]

Exactly, it makes no sense when you try to find all the answers and every logic, that's why I don't believe in that.

[Mesonfielde]

Fair enough :D

[Hephaestus]

I believe we simply rent our bodies, that our "soul" moves on and embodies something else, be it a mouse or something we have no ability to comprehend.

I do agree with the point you made;
"Therefore, we should value our lives for what it is NOW, rather than hope it'll get better later."

[Mesonfielde]

I think our bodies develop based on our genetic code, and the same goes for our brains, therefore when we die, we die with our genetic code, and therefore our consciousness.

[Hephaestus]

Then that's your belief and that's cool ^_^
what makes ya think like that?

[Mesonfielde]

... the biological facts that I know.

[Hephaestus]

Being? :3
You know what happens to the body, that's a given.. but the mind/soul?

[bigguru]

OMG I HOPE YOU READ MY COMMENT UP THERE. DAMN

[Hephaestus]

What's got your panties in a twist buddy?
@bigguru

[Mesonfielde]

Soul? What soul? The mind is just what you perceive of your brain's activity.

[Hephaestus]

I believe a "soul" to be us.
the concience and mindset we have.

[Mesonfielde]

I think of it as just data stored in our brain.

[Hephaestus]

By who?

surely the same logic could be applied to your theory?
Like... you believe your point because of other peeps "knowledge" on the matter and such.
in truth, the only way any of us will ever find out... is when we experience it ourselves :3

[Mesonfielde]

By the brain, of course! We are all driven by our brains, and maintained by our genetic code.

But valid point though, how does "human information retention work", "where does brain store data", "how do people memorize things". There's a whole bunch of stuff going on, mostly with hormones and synapses, for example the "consolidation process" that occurs during sleep which prunes information you don't need and retains information you do.

[Hephaestus]

The mind is a mysterious thing to say the very least, I don't think we will ever be able to have a definitive answer to dang near any of the questions peeps have ;_;
but that's kinda what makes theories and beliefs awesome!
it's great hearing other peeps :3

[Mesonfielde]

What we need is more neuroscientists who can figure out how all these biochemical/biophysical stuff work in the brain

[Hephaestus]

We, as a civilisation, need a lot of things :p

[Mesonfielde]

Well if we want to make progress on what consciousness is, then THIS is what we need - decyphering wtf the brain does to make itself work

[Hephaestus]

I doubt we will ever fully know to be honest, it's like a puzzle within a puzzle... each new piece that's lifted, more layers are seen :3

[Ped1981]

To say there's no life after death is to say there's nothing in this world that can't be explained scientifically, ie it must have some substance or form in matter or energy. Bearing that in mind, where in the human brain is a memory stored or the soul for that matter? A surgeon can't extract it. No measurements have ever been taken of it. It's ethereal. I'm not religious but this is a yawning gap in understanding

[Mesonfielde]

We actually just need to figure out the exact biophysical structure in which data is stored and persisted within the brain. It's gotta be there somewhere. You can't see the tiny bits on a CD Disc either, yet we don't claim the 1s and 0s to be "ethereal" either.

[Ped1981]

They're machined and man made. Whatever makes up the soul there's no evidence of it

[Mesonfielde]

We probably just aren't looking at the right place. In the world of the brain, things are made of synapses and hormones.

[Ped1981]

You honestly think one day they'll be able to assign every part of a human being to 100% of the human body? They mapped dna and all it's genes and alleles in the 90s but there's still a retro helix, a percentage of the dna they don't know what's for.

[Mesonfielde]

Cool!

And that's why we need science instead of religiously believing things from 2000 years ago

Imagine if people still thought of medical science like in the times of Aristotle

That's essentially what religious beliefs would be like. Also claiming that you can predict the future from animal intestines and stuff.

[Ped1981]

That's a bit exreme. Faith gives people comfort and hope. If there was no mystery life wouldn't be worth living. There's a hub where science and religion will meet and we'll know just about everything on that day

[Mesonfielde]

Reminds me, have you heard of Henry Molaison?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Molaison

His hippocampus was removed, and he couldn't remember any NEW information that happened to him, But he could remember things from BEFORE his surgery.

[docdawesome]

I think its all about feeling better. Although the idea of a personal God, an afterlife or immortal souls seem implausible it gives a lot of people a sense of purpose in life. Many people need the support religion provides. I am not sure that I believe in these ideas but I feel the discipline that comes with religion makes me a better person.

[Mesonfielde]

You'd think understanding the idea of life being finite would be a source of motivation, not of depression.

[weapon-x]

That's a cool theory. I believe in an after life but I don't really care if it's real or not, I like to believe that when you die a good death, die in battle, die a hero, you get to go to Valhalla.

[Mesonfielde]

I'd totally party with the Valkyries, it's just that they'd claim I'm not vikingly enough as I am not much of a warrior-type :P

[weapon-x]

That's dosn't matter, it's about the fight in your heart. Killing your enimies is just a metiphore.

[Mesonfielde]

I wish there was a Valhalla where all the cool people reside, haha.

[weapon-x]

Yeah never know for sure. If you haven't already read the book American gods. It is a really cool concept that all of the gods are real and there strength is determined by how many people worship them. It's fiction but it's a fun read. You learn a lot about people's culture. When everyone came to America they brought their gods with them type thing.

[Anonymous]

sorry dude but even if i'm an atheist i believe in afterlife basically

i don;t give a shit if there's evidence 4 it or not... but i WANNA believe there's sth after death... not some stupid vacant space... pffft

[Mesonfielde]

oh it's not even just "stupid vacant space"

you literally just stop existing, stop perceiving, and there is NOTHING from the moment your brain shuts down

[bigguru]

That shit makes no sense to me. Simce we're rational beings, we should easily spot when too much reasoning turns into bullshit

[Mesonfielde]

@bigguru wut?

[bigguru]

In your case, being too damn rational and logical to the point were it turns imto bullshit

[Mesonfielde]

@bigguru so you're saying you just don't like hearing the truth about death, ok

[bigguru]

I just believe in commom sense. The fact that everything has an origin or a maker makes a lot of sense to me. All the discoveries and science is only proving that there is a higher power. Its too perfect for it to be an accident -_-

[Mesonfielde]

@bigguru read about EHLERS DANLOS TYPE IV genetic disorder and tell me all about the "perfection" you speak of

[Opinion Owner]

@asker dude this guy (@bigguru) is right... u should cool down a little bit. take it as some friendly advice basically.

u sound really cold sometimes...2 much "reasonng" would make u sound like a big huge iceberg without any signs of emotions. honestly... don't u find it scary that u won't exist, say after 60 years or so?

damn... although most of the times i agree with yer opinions... but this is... very savage 4 my standads basically... sorry!

[Mesonfielde]

Well sorry to say that just because I don't like the sound of it, I won't deny the most possible truth regarding death.

[Opinion Owner]

@asker u cannot deny the fact that nobody knows what happens after death basically.

but u believe there's only vacant space whilst i believe there's afterlife... somehow.

apart from yer beliefs... what would u WANT it 2 be? honestly!! would u WANT 2 stop existing in anyway... or would u like 2 experience the afterlife?

[Mesonfielde]

We know what happens at the time of death. I personally choose to believe what makes most sense based on the facts that I know.

That is why I choose not to believe in religions either.

[Opinion Owner]

hmph... i give up...

but remember this...2 much "rationaless" would make u sound like a big iceberg without emotions as i told u... hope it won't hurt u... but truth is i'd not b friends with u if u sounded so "mechanical" and "cold"

u should leave some "window" open 4 possibility of afterlife... when yer time is gonna come u would change yer mind... because u would like 2 do sth more!!! u r still faraway from death so u don;t feel it atm!!!

[Mesonfielde]

I could get ran over by a truck of a drunk driver any day, still wouldn't change the way I think about this.

[Opinion Owner]

damn i wanna say this... u r very cold sometimes... but i wouldn;t say it because i noticed u said u r 1 of my favorite GAGers and we agree in many other topics lke the one with girls starving themselves... but... i cannot hold it anymore basically!!!

i'm an atheist 2... but man!!! i don't explain EVERYTHING "rationally" and "logically"!!! i'm not a robot!!! u sound like u have no emotions basically!!!

dammit... i believe sometimes there r some other atheists that make religous people 2 believe that atheists r cold mechanical robots... whatever...

anyway i feel better now that i opened up and told u how i feel sometimes about yer opinions basically... ughhhh

[Mesonfielde]

I do have emotions, but they are probably just a subset compared to some other, far more imaginative people, who are able to parse the world on such levels that I personally cannot even imagine.

But even so, if there is something for me to "believe" in, I would rather choose something that has the greatest factual support. You don't believe in the stories of Christianity because they make no sense to you, no? And you don't respect it as it is a learned concept system, rather than one you choose for yourself.

But the idea of an afterlife also stems from religions. Why follow a doctrine of thought that is less supported by facts, than one that is not?

[Opinion Owner]

because i HATE WITH PASSION the fact that i will stop existing 1 day basically!!!

i WANT 2 exist 4 ever!!! i don't give a damn if it's related with religions or not... i just WANT 2 believe that there IS sth. even if "hell" exists as christians say... that's fine with me!!! better than vacant spce!!

this is the most scary thing EVER basically!!

i will NEVER accept this, and i will believe in afterlife wether it's related with religions or not... and whether it's been proven or not.

whoever doesn't WANT 2 believe in afterlife...2 me he doesn't like his existance... he doesn't want 2 exist 4 ever.

hope i was clear!

[Mesonfielde]

I think knowing that you will eternally vanish along with what makes you who you are (your acquired data and your genetic code) is what should drive people to have kids and be partially preserved, rather than just be erased completely.

[Opinion Owner]

so u think that some1's purpose in life is 2 reproduce in order 2 not... lose their genetical code? WTF?

man u r just a machine basically.. and u sound like u believe everybody else is a machine as well.. u r not human... people lke u give theists the impression that we atheists r some cold-blooded people without emotions that explain everything wth cold logic

i had enough i don't give a shit if u consinder me 1 of yer favorite GAGers or not... the reason i didn't tell u anything was this basically... but i don't want 2 pretend anymore... i'd like 2 be honest how do i feel about u and some of yer savage and inhuman opinions

also u r stubborn in many other topics as well... i remember 4 example when u said, that u don't like console gaming WITHOUT even trying it... or that u believe today's music is better because technology is superior than what it was 3 decades ago

correct me if i'm wrong in those 2 examples but that's what i remember basically

[Opinion Owner]

i'll drop u from my followers... do the same dude, i don't want 2 be related with a guy with such opinions,... u rjust the definition of a stubborn person

[Mesonfielde]

Technically, I just like electronic music more personally, possibly because that's what I listened to while growing up - FM sounds and chiptune are still close to my heart.

And I never claimed that the ONLY purpose for reproduction is to not lose your genetic code.
But that DOESN'T mean it is NOT a purpose of it. Hell, that's why any other lifeform in the world reproduces.

Alas, if that's what you so desire, then so be it. I'm not going to change my mind on afterlife just because the truth "hurts". We should use information to better ourselves, not just stick our heads in the sand thinking God will save us without exerting any effort.

[Opinion Owner]

i like electronc music 2 but nothing beats 80s analogue synths basically

but that;s not our issue... here again u equal humans with other lifeforms... like we r 1 of the bunch... that's y i call u savage.

i'm really REALLY surprised that u have a gf as well... how can a girl accept such crazy beliefs that put down human race in general... unless she's equally heartless as u, and the only reason u r 2gether is 2 carry on yer genetic codes... jeez, u think that humans r products more or less!!!

and whover told u that's the truth dude? it MIGHT be... not it IS. Have u died before and u know that? LOL

[Opinion Owner]

pffft i won't respond any further... i think it's like talking 2 a wall basically

(after all u r as emotional as a wall :-P)

just 2 things be4 we cut ties

1) if u dare 2 mention my name again or comment in my opinions or questions wether u r responding 2 me or 2 some other guy/girl... i'll BLOCK u basically. and i'm serious here

2) u r 1 of the FEW GAGers counted in the FINGERS OF 1 HAND, that i wouldn't feel sad if they left this site... in fact i'd consinder GAG get rid of some guy that shames humans in 1 way or another

that's it dude...

farewell!

[been_waiting]

I wish people would stop trying to apply logic to religion. Its called "faith" for a reason.

[Mesonfielde]

I think it would make sense to believe in something that makes sense even under the scrutiny of logic.

[been_waiting]

Key words: "makes sense"

[Mesonfielde]

Religion has the problems that the only way it seems reasonable is if you dismiss every discrepancy. A belief that has the least discrepancies has the highest likelihood of actually being correct. That is why the typical pro-religion argument is "but they knew things they couldn't have known at that time, therefore it cannot be false". By trying to erase the discrepancies, shoving them under the rug.

[been_waiting]

That's all fine and dandy, I didn't ask you what you think about religion. What I'm saying is that religion isn't meant to be logical or make sense so don't expect a religious person to give a single fuck that it doesn't make any sense.

[Mesonfielde]

... I don't understand how anyone could do that, or why they would choose to do that. Lol. Isn't that the very definition of stubborn closemindedness? Still continuing to believe something even if it is blatantly false?

[been_waiting]

It isn't blatantly false to them.

[Mesonfielde]

And that is why they are wrong! :D

You should seriously need to read some of @nert73 's answers. You would understand the clear problem with letting people just believe whatever they want even though it doesn't make sense, nor is it supported by any rational claim. The typical denial of evolution and stuff, keeping science back one zealot at a time.

[been_waiting]

". You would understand the clear problem with letting people just believe whatever they want even though it doesn't make sense"

Excuse me? LETTING PEOPLE? first of all you can't control what others think, secondly if you could it would be unethical. holy fuck you keep getting worse and worse. I'm considering blocking you so I won't answer your questions and end up getting pissed at how ridiculous you are.

[Mesonfielde]

Hmm, you wouldn't be the first today to do that.

But FYI, religious people and the church, but also Radical Islam have been defining what people are "allowed to believe in" for the longest of time. In fact, that's why they ARE a religion in the FIRST PLACE. Organized ones.

Like illustrated here s3.amazonaws.com/.../science.png

You know, witch burnings, killing Galileo for calculating that the Earth is revolving around the Sun, etc. Religion itself has been the censorship of thoughts, that is what it was made for.

[Mesonfielde]

So I'm not sure what you're getting at, here. They've been doing this for centuries, and we're talking in concepts.

I'll never understand why people get so worked up over concepts.

[muspelhem_5]

Great comment. Great, great, great comment.

[Omar5881]

I believe in the human soul and in the afterlife it's a believe I follow my heart and my mind when the religion says so I have my opinion and u have yours we all should respect each other's opinions :)

[Mesonfielde]

I primarily respect the views that make the most sense and are most in connection with current state of science and reality, though.

[Omar5881]

Look the human soul and the afterlife of course has no explanation in the science but we don't know everything like we don't know what happens if u enter a black hole I believe in God who told me that there's afterlife and human soul

[Mesonfielde]

Do you know what happens when you enter a black hole?

You're CRUSHED by the gravity well.

[Omar5881]

Nope that's a theory, there are some other theories like u can go to another place in the universe or u will see the whole creation of the universe from the beginning they are all just theories mo one ever knows what happens inside a black hole

[Mesonfielde]

Black holes have a greater gravity pull than a neutron star.

Your bones would literally be crushed to pieces if you went near a neutron star.

[Omar5881]

Yes they have great power of gravity I am saying when u enter it no one knows what will happen to u, and I study physics so I know these stuff very good

[Mesonfielde]

... you know what happens? Same thing that happens to a sperm whale that ends up ashore.

It EXPLODES.

[Omar5881]

NO FUCKING ONE KNOWS

[Mesonfielde]

Sure they do. It's math and the application of force to your body.

[Johnnyjay]

therefore, obviously. lol. your entitled to your opinion. just find it funny a 23 year old thinks he has all the answers

[llorando]

My view is the sole is the software and the body is the hardware. And dying is like a computer failing, your sole is being transfers to heaven/after life like files being treanferd to backup medium

[Mesonfielde]

Except, when is the "soul" installed, and what guarantee is there that it isn't just the "brain" that you perceive to be what is responsible for what you attribute to the "soul"?

Phineas Gage was shot through his head with a metallic beam, and his entire personality changed - even though he survived there being a hole through his head. If damage to your brain causes such severe changes in one's persona, is there any reason why there'd need to be a "soul" to execute our behavior, rather than our brain be responsible for all of it?

[TruthsAnAshtray]

Correct me if I'm wrong but consciousness and the human brain have not yet been fully understood. Until then, I like to keep an open mind about the possibilities.

[ThatBritishLad]

The only thing we know for sure is that we don't bloody know half of it. Anything's possible for a Possible.

[hypno-trip]

I basically agree with you but I focus my time to things I find more fulfilling.

[Mesonfielde]

Fair enough.

[hypno-trip]

Just personal preference, I spent a lot of time online talking about religion too so I understand the draw of it.

[jacquesvol]

It gives them [false] hope.

[Anonymous]

You can't expect people of "faith" to use logic and reason.

[Anonymous]

Why do you believe their's not an after life.

[Mesonfielde]

Because as the brain is what defines your personality as a person, if your brain shuts down, there is nothing left of you. Even if there is an afterlife, what is able to pass there won't be you. It cannot be you. And to be honest, they made up the "soul controls the body" thing because they didn't understand the purpose of the brain.

[tenofthepeaks]

not very imaginative, are yoiu?

[Mesonfielde]

Imagination won't change the fact of death. Maybe in fiction books, but not in reality.

[tenofthepeaks]

and science has explained everything there is to know in the universe... got it..

[Mesonfielde]

Well biology is certainly getting there.

[tenofthepeaks]

ok... fool.

[Mesonfielde]

Why thank you

[tenofthepeaks]

well faux scientists are fools, but there you go..

[Mesonfielde]

My heart goes out to the actual neuroscientists who will debunk the nonsense that allows us to think there is ANYTHING after death, other than oblivion.

[tenofthepeaks]

expect there's no such as scientic fact... and a scientist 100 years after he died may prove him wrong...

dogmatic fool, aren't you?