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Why don't more men learn how to flirt? (Page 2)
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personally... I never learned because I never needed to flirt, lol
being myself always worked for me... and then I just got older and older, and more experienced too so I just never had the need to learn some sort of act or trick, being genuinely myself has always worked
Yeah, I don't know what that really means. It isn't like my fiance woke up next to me one day and went. . ."who the hell are you?"
![Why don't more men learn how to flirt?]()
There are guys out here who simply do not understand. They do not have to change who they are. That's the point. If you can't communicate who you are, you have no shot. You gotta get over it, find tools and methods that work for being fun and engaging.
I mean, it isn't like you are ogre right? And women go. . ."oh I love ogres!!!"
Can we be realistic for a post or two? Some of these guys are real downers man.
some definitely have to change who they are...
the really bad people
they definitely need to change, improve
that's realistic
I am just trying to encourage them. I mean, it is no where near as bad as they make it. And a lot of these guys could have a good time if they only learned how to open up.
it takes bravery and courage to be more open and vulnerable...
not all people are that, brave
introspection is perhaps the most difficult challenge we all have to face (on ourselves too) and like that saying says, something like... you can lead the horse to the river, but you can't force them to drink the water
@NathanDavis I'd rather be my authentic self than resort to underhanded tactics such as flirting.
@Shiningtempest You might be in the wrong thread.
If you have no issues with dating, why would you need to flirt?
@RolandCuthbert Lot of good stuff here and a lot of good points. I especially like the part about flirting w/ everyone which is something I love to do. I will say however you're being a bit disingenuous there's plenty men in GAG who claim to have success w/ women the issue is if that success doesn't line up w/ female relationship metrics their opinions are disregarded. in my opinion it's pretty easy to attract women, provided men keep an abundance mentality and focus on generating value in themselves, however that narrative does not have the disney fairytale aspect so many provide water downed ineffective POV's designed to appease women.
I am not sure where I am being disingenuous. I created a question;
Does the 80/20 rule actually exist? ↗
Most of the men responding claimed it does. So if only 20% of the men are getting most of the women, and most here certify that claim, how am I to blame?
@RolandCuthbert Excellent question. Specifically in my opinion you're being disingenuous w/ your "it seems as of everytime a guy talks about his issues everything is super serious" My argument is that when men present positives in dating that don't equate to female metrics it is ignored, ridiculed ir citizens, thus leaving a space where only male relationship losers are heard. Yes, I agree 100% w/ the 80/20 rule, and have been preaching it for over 20 years. Can't speak to the "blame" as I don't blame u for anything, as I said u seem spot on in my opinion.
I don't think you read the take at all. There are a lot of guys who know how to flirt and they get dates. These questions/takes are specifically for males who claim they do not have success. You believe in the 80/20 rule? You don't believe this is contradictory given what you have stated here?
I don't believe in the rule. I think more men have success than what is commonly believed. But the issue is the guys who are bitter and angry because they are alone are very loud. And they drown out all other voices.
That is not caused by me. That's their issue. Those guys who are open to change and suggestions will find eventual success. The guys who are bitter and angry. . . well. . . let's hope for their own sakes they do not wish to leave this world in such a state.
@RolandCuthbert A "lot" is a relative term, my argument is
1) It's a fraction of the amount of input from guys that are actually good w/ women.
2) The metrics used to measure "male success" is the same as used to measure female success is the same meaning if a man has a monogamous relationship w/ one woman. My argument has always been that the quantity of women is how men judge success. Believe in it if we're talking about the rule that 20% of men get 80% of the women, I feel like I should get credit for inventing it lol, I wrote my senior thesis on it nearly 20 years ago. No I don't see the contridiction, please share.
@RolandCuthbert My actual number was 20% of guys get 90% of the women, however I agree w/ your statement of more men having success, but as I previously stated, I don't agree that the marketplace judges men by that metric. I completely disagree w/ your POV about its because guys that are bitter and angry "and could easily prove it if you're ever interested in being part of the experiment" Simply labeling a person "angry and bitter" does not make it accurate and any man sharing a POV that opposes a females runs the risk of being labeled as such and that part I do feel u are being a bit disingenuous about. Also who is making the claim that their issues are caused by you? Personally a person's bitterness and angry is irrelevant to me, why is it so important to you? Any info appreciated.
1. Again, these takes/questions are targeted.
2. Obviously these metrics are different. Bedding a lot of women is seen as a masculine trait. But good luck on taking credit for that.
The contradiction is claiming a small fraction of men are successful with women, while simultaneously claiming most or a significant portion know how to flirt and get dates.
But I am the "disingenuous" one?
What you claim to be "the metric" seems to vary from post to post. Maybe try getting a little specific.
And again I don't think you read the take. You can respond to what you I said. I am unsure how that helps for communication.
You introduce this concept of a marketplace judging men. I did not. I merely addressed the men here who struggle with getting dates. And offered the advice that they should try to flirt more often as a way of building social skills.
And there are numbers posters who are angry. Who are bitter. And who are certain that they will never find love and that this is society's fault.
I can't deal with that. But I can talk with others who are open to suggestions.
@RolandCuthbert I now understand your confusion.
1) If your takes are "question targeted" you are being provided an answer so not sure what the relevance of sharing that is. Please clarify.
2) You're validating my point, because men are shamed for taking credit for having sex w/ a lot of women we rarely hear from them and when we do, we typically look for a way to invalidate them which ironically proves how much society values men that are successful w/ women based on male metrics.
3) I never claimed a significant portion know how to flirt. Why do you believe I made that claim?
Yes You're being a bit disingenuous and the proof is you're forced to reframe my statement to match your belief. This is partly because u can't refute the original statement so you're attempting to create a completely different one and attribute it to me.
@RolandCuthbert You're confusing metrics w/ opinions. A metric is how we measure, we measure. A man success w/ women is measured by the number of women he gets a female' s successful w/ men is measured by the quality of man they can keep. That's why you know the names of the most famous playboys in the world but can't name one man in the history of the world that is famous for being a husband. You "thinking" something is relevant to what actually happened.
I didn't introduce the concept of a marketplace judging men the marketplace has always been there. Yes I agree men should flirt more to improve their social skills. One of the reasons I've been so successful w/ woman is because of my ability to charm everyone on my vicinity.
I'm sure there are bitter poster, however do u understand you're just validating my point? Why do you spend your time engaging w/ them vs engaging w/ those men that are sharing success stories?
No one forcing u to "deal w/ that" your making the decision to do that. If that is such an issue for you Why are you spending your time engaging w/ them?
Sir, I think you are the one that is confused.
1. I have done several takes/questions about what males can do increase their success at getting dates. These are not "targeted questions". Again these are questions/and takes "targeted" at men who feel they don't have much success at the dating game.
2. Yeah nothing in this point addresses what this "take" is about. If you want, start your own "take" and we can discuss whether or not men who have a lot of sex feel shame. When I did it, I didn't feel shame. In fact, I felt validation. Then I started to see just how destructive my behavior was to myself and to the other people in my life. But again, this has nothing to do with learning how to flirt.
3. Because believe it or not, the name of the "take" is "Why don't more men learn how to flirt?" And it was about providing tips on flirting. That's why I thought you were talking about flirting. If you not talking about flirting skills, then I don't there is much to discuss.
4. Yeah, I am not disingenuous. I think you are just confused or looking to debate another topic you are passionate about. But you seem to have issues articulating exactly what that topic is. But you can start your own take. And if there is something to discuss, I will stop by.
Thanks for your support.
So this is definitely not what I was looking to discuss in this take. I mean, how did you get from men learning how to flirt to talking about men being husbands and not getting recognition for that.
Yes, you did introduce this concept as though that is the title of this take. It isn't. If you wish to discuss how men are judged, then create your own take, rather than trying to redefine mine. I wanted to talk about something specific. I didn't go to someone's take to change the subject. I created my own.
No, I am not validating your point. In fact, your point has nothing to do with this take. So you actually had a much different reason for posting here. You did not wish to talk about the take at all.
Wow.
@RolandCuthbert 1) My apologies but you're answers make it appear as if you are confused. You keep bringing up advice you give to men claiming they are not "target" questions and the saying they are "targeted to me who feel they don't have success in the dating game" that's a direct contradiction. My point is that those are the only type of men that are acknowledged, and you're simply validating my point by saying this.
2) I can't speak to "men feeling shame" because I never said that. I've had sex w/ over 270 women and have never felt shame so I can't speak to that.
3) Not applicable
4) Based on your answers you seem disingenuous or confused.
@RolandCuthbert I'm not sure how u got to that. Please share where I mentioned anything about men not being husbands? I didn't introduce the concept of the dating marketplace so I can't speak on that, but I see why you're confused, you kinda selecting specific words and pretending that it's the entire sentence. This is a female trait.
My point is men that are successful w/ women are rarely heard, the focus is usually concentrated on men who can't get women, your entire take validates this point.
You are just a waste of time and energy. Go work out your confusion. Create your own take. If it is worth the effort. I will comment.
I wanted to provide flirting tips for men. And you have an entirely different subject, you are trying to define. I can speak to your grievance or personal problems. The title of this take says exactly what I am interested in talking about.
So you refused my offer to create your own take clearly defining what you wish to discuss.
I don't have time for this silliness.
I think a lot of guys are just scared of women for possibility of being rejected harshly. Some seem to think they have to follow some hollywood romance script. And a few others don't have the heart to reject a woman if she turns out to be incompatible with them. That's why they get attention when they're not trying or when they're already in a relationship, but fail when they're actively looking for a partner.
I've never had to actively try to flirt. Never saw the point in it because I know that if a woman is attractive to me, it'll show. So I just talk and joke and make friends as usual, and the women who get interested will subtly show it as well.
I feel bad for the guys who struggle with women because 9/10 they're making it so much harder than it has to be.
But this is the point of flirting. I take extra care to mention to stop flirting seriously. I mean you cannot flirt seriously anyway. Being flirtatious is the point. And to not just flirt with women you are attracted to. This is a skill. So flirt with as many women as you can. Being social is not a skill most of us are born with. But we can get better at it if we practice.
As for you, well if you don't have issues with getting women and never have, I don't think you will understand. But a lot of guys see this as an immovable barrier to them getting dates and finding love.
I'm just really shy. I can't even talk to men so how am I supposed to talk to women? Whenever I'm around new people my face starts to feel really hot and numb. And if a girl flirts with me it's like that feeling x100. I wish I wasn't like that and could socialize more but I can't control how I feel.
Well, if it is any consolation. It is probably easier to talk to women. Because women like to talk. You can just pick a topic for them and watch them go.
:D
Because it’s easier to give up and blame your failures on anything other than yourself.
Well, I think that is one of the issues. Some get really angry. Others get really depressed. I wonder if the problem is social media has robbed men of the skills they need to actually be social. It is like they think being online is actually developing social skills.
How does social medial rob skills? Skills are learned, if guys aren't learning social skills, isn't that their fault?
Dude, I created this thread. So how did you get to the conclusion that I am making excuses for guys who refuse to learn social skills.
I only offered one possible explanation, in that they don't learn because they think being online is being social.
Of course being online and meeting people in person are two totally different things.
You just said "social media has robbed men of the skills they need to actually be social." I asked a clarifying question; I haven't made any conclusions yet.
Well, let me backtrack. I used the wrong term. I think a lot of guys/males, do the online thing because to them it appears to be socializing. But when it does not result in success in dating, they start to get resentful. You can find these online grievance groups pretty quickly. So they sign up to youtube grifters who use their bitterness to get clicks and earn money.
In my, subjective, opinion, 'learning how to flirt' just doesn't work. Be yourself and that's a sure-fire way to get the person who is compatible with you.
If you're not yourself then you will get the person who is attracted to this version you're portraying, and then you will, inevitably, be disappointed.
Most women say the same thing. And am not hating on you, but women are not a good source for learning about how to date women. They only tell men what they what they wish they were attracted to. They tend to portray themselves in the most favorable light, rather than telling men the hard honest truth.
2nd pic is not to be creepy so can't wink these days anymore. also i think mocking, even a gentle tease , would at best drag dialog but not for any "lets talk about it at a star bux" and worse give an excuse to say get lost. in contrast to show where they captive.
Don't mind me, just looking at you trying to save your brethren! 👍
Haha! Thanks for the encouragement.
I think the key difference here is you are comfortable with the idea of hanging out with women just for fun. Whereas I am not. I take dating extremely seriously. Which is why I would never operate the way you operate. It's not my style.
Nothing against you, though! Just personal differences.
Well, I would think this would just be for dudes who are struggling. You don't seem to be that kind of guy.
Go get them. . . ladykiller.
@RolandCuthbert Well, thank you for the compliment! 😄
Any man with common sense isn't going to carry a manual or a handbook on how he should or shouldn't flirt. Men don't flirt because woman have said they don't like it and men have taken it into consideration making the decision not to anymore that in addition to Metoo. A man that still flirts in today's day is taking a huge risk something I would do nor would I advise other men to do it either.
Yawn. . . I have flirted my entire life. Why become bitter just because you think grabbing a woman's ass is flirting?
You are very naive thinking that it takes a physical action or even a action at all to get you accused of something. Believe me I have witnessed women deceive and false witness against men many times men that didn't even so much as touch them.
Well, I am just saying. I have flirted successfully, without grabbing ass or putting my hands down a woman's shirt.
It is just supposed to light-hearted and fun.
Not dead serious. . .
I was reprimanded once for simply looking in a girls direction keep that in mind.
Then you woke up from that dream and went and ate a bowl of cornflakes. Women ain't perfect. There are some really messed up females out there. Stop doing what messed up females do. . . blame the entire male sex because of an asshole.
I've been told off by a lot of women.
But then some of those women I slept with later. But I wouldn't recommend trying what I did.
Flirting is for boomers. This shows how outdated this site and other sites like facebook are becoming. Younger zoomer women have bullshit detectors that are light-years more advanced than millennial women and older. The 90s ended 23 years ago brother man. Stupid ass jokes and paper-thin stage gags were how our fathers got laid.
Yawn. . . as long as boomers are getting tail, it doesn't matter. You guys can go back to youtube and whine about how nobody loves you.
:D
I'm 40 and currently dating and fucking a 22 year old. Before that a 24 year old. Before that a 26 year old. Before that a 19 year old. I'm doing fine just using my school's student forum and a few apps. Thanks. But yeah totally keep going to bars with your "can i buy you a drink?"... I'm sure it works great on those post-wall 51 year old divorcees with pussies that have pushed out 4 kids.
Hey dude, you can tell me anything you want. Your life is the greatest yet you stopped by this take and just had to post.
:D
To stay natural because you dont want to appear as someone else because you dont want the "person" to like someone else but you. I mean, "love" dont look like a method with what you need to do in order to achieve it, step by step.
I hear this all the time. "I don't want to be somebody that I am not".
Flirting is the gateway for people to get to know you. How can you be social if your personality is anti-social? If you don't want a relationship that's fine. But when guys whine about their choices, I don't get that.
why can't girls just speak the truth straight and say what they really mean instead of saying "maybe" all the time and then saying "not that, not that" like make up your mind and decide on something for once!
Young one, I was your age. I asked the same questions. And all I did was get laughed at. . .
by girls.
That just isn't how they communicate or socialize. It is always some maze. They will tell you all the things that they claim turns them off about men. . . then date that exact same man. Then stick with that man while he cheats on them, develops addictions to drugs or alcohol, embarrasses them, etc.
It is just how many of them are. Now you can find that one in a million girl, who is just genuine, up front, no nonsense, etc.
If that is what you have to have, then look for that. My current girlfriend is like that. But I didn't find her in the States. In fact, when I dated in the States, I found it easier to date women who were from other countries. I dated women from Jamaica, Togo, Ukraine, South Africa, etc. I have to that Slavic women and African women were the most straight forward. They don't date guys they are not interested in. You don't have to wade through weirdness.
I think i got it down well. Its definitely a learned skill though. Practice makes perfect lol
They don't get that. And the thing that's crazy is, there is no joy. I love talking to women, on airplanes, in the terminal, on the train, at the station, at the bar. . . just give me a woman!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNz_t-wE5VQ
Never heard the quip "most pretty people are a lot more interesting to look at them they are to talk to?"
Craig Ferguson is a terrible example.
1. He has natural charisma
2. He hosts a talk show and knows guests are obliged to play along and he exploits this to the max.
Most men are not Craig Ferguson. I would love to spend time talking more comfortably with women but honestly find most of them don't have much to talk about.
If flirting is not their style it appears as fake. To me this Craig guy is sleazy af. I'm not saying he isn't witty and funny occasionally but I wouldn't take lessons. Guys who have problems approaching women need to learn to be confident and be themselves. And smart enough to succeed. If you're not confident you become afraid to approach people to avoid rejection. You should rather ask why don't more men learn to be confident
How does one learn to be confident? Through years of practice, developing skills and understanding in a chosen discipline. How does one appear to be genuine? By knowing what cues to pick up on, what his strengths are, what is interesting subject matter, etc.
Confidence isn't magic. You accrue it the same way you do everything else. By developing skills, taking chances and having success.
Flirtatious behavior is a massive pet peeve of mine. It shows no genuine interest. That and I personally dislike receiving someone coming at me with flirts, it’s uncomfortable and wastes my time. When they flirt and don’t get what they want, they ghost.
So tell me why would I enjoy it anyhow 😂😂😂😂 men are freaks and need their dads to help them learn the ropes and to stop practicing on every woman he sees.
I am sorry. But I really don't care what you have to say. I know when you find one of us freaky men, you will be the happiest woman in the world.
:D
I never learnt how to flirt cause it's honestly a wasted skill on me. No amount of that is changing how undateable I am.
That being said, i have no issue socialising with people both men and women and I don't generally have trouble making friends.
Well, if you can make friends easily why is it so hard to flirt romantically with women. It doesn't have to be serious. In fact, the first few times make sure it isn't serious. Just joke.
Look at Craig work on Alice Eve. That's a ten if there ever was one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QULPnDDYcbI&t=1s
It's not that i can't flirt. I probably could if i tried. I just never bothered to try cause i know it'd be a wasted skill on me.
I just don't understand the logic.
Its the same story I have heard a thousand times. "I will probably fail, so I won't even try".
I can't wrap my head around that.
It's only when it comes to relationships that I know this. In any other field I know i have a chance to succeed. But not this, that's just what I fundamentally am. And that's okay, I've accepted it.
You don't think everyone else is dealing with the same thing? I was not always confident. In fact, I was a computer nerd. In fact, I still am. I got good at this through practice. That's the only way any of us gets good at this game.
Unfortunately, that is what this is. A game.
But playing it isn't so bad. In fact, being social is just part of being human.
I'd still rather not play. I've got friends, I'm happy with my current life trajectory and I've got hobbies to keep me content. I don't need to add a risk of heartbreak into that. Thank you though.
But that isn't true. Or why would you stop by this "take"?
![Why don't more men learn how to flirt?]()
I am just trying to be real with you.
You don't have to be alone. You can be happy. And even better, you can make someone else happy.
I understand what you're trying to say but I'm good. I'm not alone, I've got plenty of friends and family. I'm already happy.
And i definitely know that no one's gonna find happiness being my partner 😂
Honestly it's for the best. But thank you, i appreciate the effort.
Yeah, I don't understand your appearance in this thread then.
The last thing a contented person has to do, is explain their contentment.
I just answered originally cause i was bored and randomly scrolling through questions. Thought it'd be interesting to put in my thoughts.
Yeah, there are a lot of threads at this site, in case that boredom returns.
Alright I'll take note of that and avoid your threads 👍, cheers.
I'm shy. Girls scare me. I wish I was good at flirting, but I don't have enough self-confidence to flirt
But it isn't about self-confidence. At least not in the beginning. It is about being extroverted. I remember I used to have a life coach. She has a website. She would literally force me to meet people at parties and social functions.
It changed my life.
www.leadershipstorylab.com/about/esther-choy/
Social skills in general are tough for men to learn because we simply aren’t taught them. It doesn’t help that many women don’t respond well to an inexperienced man’s attempts to practice.
That much is true. I agree with. And older men have to help out here. Because women can't do it.
Can’t, and honestly they wouldn’t, even if they knew how! lol I really do love women, but they are just not anywhere near as nice as they think they are