Women don't actually seem to want "nice guys" so why do they keep affirming that they do?

[FrederickH]

I believe that women, regardless of their political affiliation, are more attracted to men who are more cocky and slightly aggressive then men who are more laid back and passive. Yet many of those same women have waged a war against toxic masculinity, a broken social construct for sure, but one that produced the brutish, confident, emotionally detached men that seem to fair better sexually and romantically.

Updates

+1 y

I understand that questions like this can be imflammatory. Whether or not they represent my own beliefs is irrelevant, I'm just interest in what you think about it.

[englisc]

I think there's a miscommunication between men and women when it comes to this.

Women's attraction is more based on personality than a man's attraction to a woman is. Men are more visual. This is common sense.

But here I'm going to give the equivalent example for a man. You like nice girls right? You want the girl you're with to treat you nicely. No shit, of course you do.

However, a girl simply being nice isn't what attracts you to her is it? What you want is for a GIRL THAT YOU'RE ATTRACTED TO to be nice. It's not the niceness that attracts you.

If you're like most guys and you don't have a strange feeder fetish or something, you prefer slim women. Imagine you meet an obese girl, and she's really nice. You're not suddenly gonna be attracted to her. She's nice, and she could maybe be your platonic friend, but she's missing the qualities that cause you to be attracted to a woman.

It's the same with most "nice guys". They lack other personality traits that attract women. Personality traits that those other guys have.

Now imagine you meet a really hot girl. Physically she's 100% your type, perfect in every way. But she's a bit bitchy when you first meet her. Since this is the internet, and everybody is so sensible and so completely rational here, you're gonna be completely turned off by her right?

No, don't be full of shit. You're still gonna be attracted to her, and if she begins to warm up to you you're gonna forget all about that because you're so attracted to her.

That's how it is in that situation also. The "nice guy" to the woman is like the fat girl to you. The "bad boy" to the woman is like the hot but slightly bitchy woman to you. They don't go with those other guys because they're bad, but despite it, because they have other attractive qualities that the nice guy doesn't.

Where you're right is that women do prefer a guy who is very confident, assertive and masculine. Those also tend to be the guys who make things happen.

If you think about the way most women act, they're passive in the dating game. They tend to wait for the guy to approach, ask them out, make the first move. The guy escalates most of the time the whole way through.

Women usually lack the confidence to do that even if they want to, so they tend to want to hint. You'll notice that they almost always ask how to get a guy to approach them, not how to approach him. They're trying to get the guy to make the move. They also worry that if they do pursue a guy he might judge her as being too easy or too slutty. That's why it's up to the man. Also as a result of slut-shaming especially, as well as wanting to avoid players hitting it and quitting it, even if they like the guy they'll make him "work" for it.

Which man do you think is going to be more likely to approach, move things forwards, and keep pursuing? The "aggressive" guy or the laid back, passive guy? The aggressive guy obviously.

I used to get friend-zoned a lot. Then one day this girl I'd known for a while who I was interested in friend-zoned me after she met and got with this other guy. Knowing that she was the blunt type, I asked her why she thought this kept happening to me. She said that I wasn't aggressive enough, those were literally her words. I seemed uninterested. Meanwhile the other guy went after her and got her.

I took that advice and started being more forward, more straight to the point about what I wanted, and my dating life improved. I didn't have to act like a dick or stop being a nice guy, I just had to be more assertive.

When it comes to asking women for dating advice, apart from girls like her, at best most will give you overly vague answers that tell you nothing. Others will tell you things that sound kind of nice in their heads but which don't actually work. It's best not to take much notice of it. If you've already made the observation that women prefer those other guys, be more like those other guys.

[Harmseygrace]

You're completely right.

[honorboundHeart884]

Being, confident, kind, does àll that you say and still fails , what does he do to rectify and resovle the issue.

Both Men and women are guilty at times of illogical thoughts and pretenses.

Harmones make people at times suseptable and ignorant to those who are ignorant and selfish..

Not all men are stupid or blindly sex driven alone,

In conclusion, if you haven't or have realize it's harder for men to be open, vulinerable with state of some have agression and unwillingness to give even an inch to finding mutual common grounds.

In my case I'm a man who's always been a genuine to women.

I have been kind. My level to be confident when need be , caring always.

Generation, after generation states progress, yet it's just stagninance and slight of hand to divert from truth and pain.

Society tries to evolve norms, but just the same, things reoccur and blame just blindly blankets.

Individuality barely exists like it once did some ways.

Technology gives so much, but human kind is a flawed design, I'm no exception.

I acknowledge who I am and how i am.

The day when man kind and women kind can actually build a new paradiagm, state of affairs.

The one thing a portion of men and women can't master, dissolving vanity.

Your looks will fade, your thirst will fade, but the person deep in you your core personality, your vulinerable self is your honest self truth.

When you finally awaken and realize your potential beyond the surface , then your real life exposure. Begins.

Sorry , but beauty alone won't attract me, intellefince, personality, kindness, open mind and heart will, but I haven't found women that even comes close.

Their are kind girls, bad bitch types , soft spoken, wild flower types, nuetral types, villian types, broken types.

All these types can be eminations within the male being too.

So be aware, love to some is a game, and to some it's a ploy to enrich them and hinder another, or love is true and you get to spend forever with the person, you can call , beloved.

Good luck <3

[Dali-chan]

Women don’t want nice guys they want good guys.
Being nice doesn’t make you a good person, especially if you’re only nice with them, cause they will feel that your kindness is not genuine.

There’s a guy that attracted me once, even tho he wasn’t my type with this kindness, not because he was complimenting me everytime, or offering me flowers but cause I saw that he truly had a big heart when I see how naturally helpful he Is with everyone, not only the hot girl he want to bang like nice guys do , he would give his last slice of bread to a homeless guy, ask a kid who’s alone if he’s lost, and was very protective with children and women, but he also had balls, and wasn’t afraid to speak up his opinion, and he never let peoples walk on him.

He wasn’t the best looking guy in our promotion, but you’d be surprised by how many women wanted him ( including me). He wasn’t cocky and arrogant but peaceful, chill, kind, helpful and strong at the same time.

Women don’t want needy weak men, nor do they want a bad boy and a jerk.
they want a good guy with balls.

The only reasons why bad boys have more one night stands is because they are very honest about what they want, and girls love sex too, and at least they know that unlike a «nice guy» the bad boy won’t play with their feelings or emotionally manipulate them to bang them and then break their hearts, with a bad boy they clearly know what they are getting themselves into.

But true quality women choose to give their support and love to good guys with balls, not bad boys who just have a big dick.

[Romeo0071234]

Wow... I was not the one to ask this question otherwise I would have given you an IMHO.. whatever that is for best comment.. lol... but honestly I think you hit it on that nail. You're so good with words... I think I'm falling in..😍😍😍 lol

[DizzyDesii]

def deserves mho

[notxing]

I was going to start typing until I read that. Yep nailed it

[Philyouup]

Give this girl MHO!!!

[DizzyDesii]

@notxing yea i chose not to even answer the question. She said it all

[Philyouup]

I was going to reply to the question as well but I read this post and though she nailed it on the head.

[SomeGuyCalledTom]

Yeah, with a bad boy they at least know up front he will emotionally manipulate and play with their feelings xD

Sorry lol, but this defense of bad guys for OPENLY doing the things that "nice guys" do SUBVERSIVELY is... odd. Seems to me that bad boys and so-called nice guys are two sides of the same coin: they're both in it for only selfish gain, and will do or say whatever gets the end result. Although nice guys have a fake morality to their actions, whereas bad boys are just openly immoral.

But shouldn't we judge people on their morals, or lack thereof-- rather than how those morals are PRESENTED? Nice guys and bad boys differ only in presentation, look beyond that and it's all the same shit. So they should be judged on that basis.

Just irks me that women eviscerate "nice guys" but keep defending bad guys as "well at least they're honest about being dishonest". Like, that's not a virtue to aspire to lol.

Anyway, besides this contention, I agree with the rest of your comment 100%. I especially like this part: "they want a good guy with balls". That could be engraved on a plaque.

[Philyouup]

I don’t get the whole “ all women” have the same tastes and desires bullshit. And @Dali-chan describes reality pretty concisely and accurately. We are individuals, not preprogrammed Robots.

[Dali-chan]

@SomeGuyCalledTom
I’m not defending the bad boys behavior but a lot of them aren’t truly players, cause they don’t lure women so that she will sleep with them, since they’re confident enough to openly admit that they only want sex and nothing else, and some women want that too, then they both have fun while being emotionally detached, which avoid any of them to be lured.
I even know a proclamed bad boy who refused to have sex with a girl cause he felt that she had truly feelings for him, and he was afraid that she will mistake the sexual altercation for an act of love. He told her since the beginning that he won’t satisfy her emotional needs cause he’s not ready to settle down, no matter what will happen between them, and that he totally understand if she refuse to have sex since there’s no love, which I find to be a way better than lying to her, telling her that she’s special to bang her and then leaving her on read and heartbroken.

[ALackey]

You were saying exactly what I'm saying. Men often think that just being nice and doing things like constantly texting the girl, constantly smothering her with compliments, and just trying to be overly cute and romantic is what is supposed to just automatically get us and that's the mistake they make. It's like you have to be nice but at the same time you have to have something extra. A lot of nice guys tend to be clingy or tend to come on too strong and that's what chases us away and some nice guys are just plain boring. Some overplay the role so hard that it just comes off as them being a try hard and that's a turn off.

[ALackey]

This is a very controversial thing. I'm actually going through this now. Got a guy best friend whom I've known since high school and he's the sweetest thing possible, gives me money to do my hair, takes me out, checks on me everyday, but however he's still not what I want. I know, weird. He likes me but I don't really like him.

The thing is a lot of times with nice guys, they think that being overly nice is what's supposed to get us but however it doesn't. Then they wonder why... a lot of "nice guys" are just nice, but that's about it. They have nothing else that really catches our attention or makes us fall for them and most the time with that, it just comes off as a front or a thirst trap just to get us.
Some "nice" guys are just TOO nice. In other words, they text too much, may be too complimenting, too affectionate, too invested in us, tries too hard, everything. There's a reason why they say even too much of a good thing, is bad. A lot of times when us girls run into "good guys" they're all of these things and it makes them clingy and too overly obsessive which we HATE. We like guys with GOOD TRAITS

[ziggy3]

Stop taking his money then.

[ALackey]

@ziggy3 that was a one time thing when I was low on cash and he did me a favor as a friend in which HE OFFERED. I definitely am not his gold digger I have my own money. He respects our friendship and respects the fact that I like time too myself, however yes he can be a bit much. I don't dislike him, just have to back him off at times.

[NewUser19]

you're not attracted to him because you know you can have him plus you find his affection weak.

[ALackey]

@NewUser19 no it's not weak it's just a bit too much. I recently just got out of something that I'm still healing from. I don't want him to stop being a friend or to leave out of my life because we're close and he's been there for me. He just can be a bit clingy. If we are meant to be then I won't deny it, but I wanna make sure my life is right and I'm healed.

[NikkiLoves69]

Confidence is really all it is.

You can be a nice guy, but how will a girl pick you out of the crowd? If you're too shy to say hi or too afraid to make eye contact? I'm telling you, approach girls, have confidence in what you do and say, and be funny. Next thing you know, the other guys are gonna think you're "cocky and confident".

Another note, no girl likes that submissive, too shy to say hi guy. It's not cute to most of us, that's why we like the guy that comes forward and makes us laugh.

If you're a nice guy, just be a nice guy. We don't sleep with guys for being nice, we just want a guy to be nice. Period. But guys expect because they are nice we should fall all over them. Often girls get attention from many guys, if you aren't confident enough to come talk to me how will I ever know you're there?

We love nice guys, just many guys act nice when they think they getting something and then change when they don't. Then call it friend zoned.

If you want to be a nice guy, really consider what it means to you.

[coachTanthony]

I think it's true that women do like more of a cocky guy or alpha male type until it doesn't serve them. If these guys end up being "BAD GUYS" to them then after a few rounds with such men they will eventually start being attracted to a more nicer guy but it's a journey to get to the nice guy!

[ThisDudeHere]

To not come off as bad, obviously.

[JackSmy]

Based on what? Your limited, obviously biased experience? Maybe what you think they call 'Nice Guys' is different than what you think it should be. Maybe you just pick the wrong ones, or approach them with the wrong attitude, like you post here?
This same thing is on here, over and over and guys just seem to think that they should just get to date any woman that they like! Is it some 'entitlement' garbage, that you got from some place?
Women are amazing, and wonderful and you need to treat them like PEOPLE, and respect them, and not just assume that they SHOULD just like you!
When I was a teen, my dad took me aside, and told me about how to respect a lady, and be courteous, and so on and things about dating.

What I remember most, is that he said, 'For every 50 ladies you like, and ask out, maybe 1 will accept! Deal with it, Boy, that is life!'

When did it change, that young guys just expect women to like them, date them, and whatever else? No effort, not dating, no respect, just assuming, like she was something you are entitled to, like property?
That is FCKED up! She is a person!! She deserves respect, and if she doesn't like you, I think I know why!!

[EmbraceThePain]

Women want a man that I define as a “kind lion.” A man that is loving, caring, kind, nice, sociable, humorous, and sensitive, but at the same time has a certain presence and mentality about himself that exudes lethality, brutality, and violence against all his and his friend’s and family’s enemies. Women want nice guys, but not nice guys who are just nice. Likewise, a woman might enjoy a single fling with the “bad boy” or “asshole” type man, but rarely do these last in a long term relationship or anything outside of short flings. In my opinion, women don’t love the “bad boy” or “asshole” type man, rather, fall in love with the kind/nice man who is capable of great violence and defense when it calls for it. A woman who knows you’re physically and mentally capable of protecting against and fighting against harm is more attracted to you once she realizes you can also be sensitive, cuddle, etc. I don’t think the “bad boy” or “asshole” sentiment mimics reality, as women do want kind and nice men. Now, women might fantasize about the “bad boy” type guy but just because one fantasizes about something doesn’t mean that’s what we actually get or go for in reality or practicality.

[Dongtai]

Because what a girl says is nice isn’t what you think is nice.

Being nice isn’t avoiding confrontation or letting a girl always get her way regardless of if she’s wrong. It’s not letting her get away with mistreating you because if you put you’re foot down, she’ll cry. Being nice isn’t a sacrifice. Don’t sacrifice your well being for the sake of a woman’s “feelings”.

Girls want a man who’s thoughtful, caring and treats them like a decent human being. They want to go on adventures, laugh and be told they’re pretty. Most importantly they want to be treated with respect

BUT

They also want a man who will stand up for himself, no matter who it is. They want the man who keeps her around because he “wants” to not because he feels like he can’t do better. She wants a man she knows she might lose if she fucks it up, not one who will put up with anybody’s bullshit because he lacks self-respect.

If you’re going to be a “nice” guy. Be genuinely nice. If you wouldn’t let a friend treat you that way, don’t let your girl. Let her know you’re her ride or die until the moment she’s the one that’s making you die.

[EpicDweeb]

I think the problem with your question lies in men often painting the issue in an extreme. Any time I hear boys talk about "nice guys" they portray them as some dude who panders to a woman's every whim, acts like basic kiss ass, doesn't assert himself, and often lacking in confidence. If not the scumbag panderer who just wants to get in a woman's pants then the "nice guy" is portrayed as the blubbering idiot who tries to win a woman's affections via a sob-story meant to invoke pity on the woman's behalf.

When a woman refers to a "nice guy" she usually isn't talking about a wet blanket who just goes with the flow, doesn't assert himself in any way and panders to her every desire. Usually she's talking about anyone who isn't an asshole, is generally kind, isn't quick to fight about things, and is willing to go out of his way for her.

In my experience and from what I've heard from women (largely on this site), girls usually aren't looking for:
- A guy who has no personal aspirations but one willing to put himself out for the sake of others even while striving after personal goals.
- A guy who fauns all over them but one who shows genuine affection and sincerity in caring for them.
- A guy who acts like an overly emotional crybaby but one who will be honest about what they think and feel.
- A guy who gives lip service or flattery but a guy who makes them feel loved and appreciated.

That's what a girl thinks of when she thinks of a "nice guy." To answer your question slightly differently, women want nice guys but they aren't running on your definition.

[Nik1hil]

Nice Guy is a decoy!

"Nice Guy" is what women use as sieve to filter Out the Guys they don't want..

3 things

Be cocky - With an attitude that none can fuck with you..

Be a Bold Jerk, it's what women love!
Women love to throw blames...
If you can be a bold jerk who will catch her blames and still keep up with her without flinching.. You got her..

It's not confidence..
Be exclusive for her..
As in the idea that even if she was standing in room filled with hot female pornstars and Victora secrets models..
But when you walk in your eyes will only be on her.. You will walk up to her. Lift her.. And carry her with you..
Like there were No other girl In the room..
That PASSION!.. Makes its rain between her legs..

And Remember Women prefer erotica over porn..
So sew a story with words..
Most men think foreplay starts after the Date with women.. In bed.
When in reality Foreplay starts for the women.. When she starts preparing for her date! Dressing herself and dreaming what could happen.. Sew all them into conversation.. And she is yours.. 😎🤘

[HopelessRomantic2119]

The issue with most “nice guys” is that they’re being nice BECAUSE they want sex/relationship, and they think that if they’re nice, that’s all they need to be. So when they are nice to a woman and don’t get sex/relationship they say “wtf I’m a nice guy, I treated you well.” But that’s not all a woman wants.

Think about it— most guys if you asked them if they wanted a girl who was nice to them, they’d say “absolutely.” But is that the only thing you want? If she’s nice to you does that mean she doesn’t have to be independent, funny, pretty, smart etc? No. It’s the same with women, at least healthy ones.

They want a man who treats them well, but is also funny, smart, charming, independent, exciting, etc.

I’m not saying women don’t take advantage of men being nice to them, surely SOME do, but being nice is only checking one box on a woman’s desired qualities.

And as a final note, most nice guys aren’t independent. And they rely on a woman’s satisfaction to make them happy, women hate that. A woman wants to be a part of your overall happiness, she doesn’t want to be all of it, ESPECIALLY early on.

[The6ix]

I believe as girls get older they realize their mistakes dealing with assholes, players and jerks then it dawns on them that they want a guy who is a nice person. But I realized women and girls who get older do not want a man to be a yes-man (unless she's on her high horse) but that a man is willing to stand up for himself. The moment a woman feels like she can walk over you and do whatever she eventually loses respect. But if a girl is bitchy at heart and says "I want a nice guy" is it because you want a guy to be subservient to you? Because sweetheart that's not love, that's an illusion of you controlling him and he doesn't have any backbone or a pair of balls between his leg.

I highly doubt a 30 year old woman wants a guy to purposely cheat on her or insult her or treat her like garbage just so she remains infatuated with him. I do believe girls want a nice man to be with especially if she wants kids with him, because I'm sure if any woman or girl out there reads this I'm assuming you want to be with a guy who will treat you well as a husband but also be a good father as well.

[westwordbound]

Yes this is an age old question. I think women consciously believe they want a nice guy, but their subconscious prehistoric DNA programming betrays them. At the subconscious is where mating decisions are made and it’s much stronger than their conscious thought. This why what women say they want vs what they REALLY want are rarely congruent.

With all that said the nice guy vs asshole argument is an oversimplification. Women want CHALLENGE and a nice guy is the antithesis of that. They also have a hard time distinguishing real confidence vs insecurity guised as confidence (which is what most assholes are... they are insecure but they compensate the most effective way possible). This does slightly improve when some women get older but it’s always a problem. Their hard coded dna makes them wet when they see an aggressive asshole. All rationality goes out the window.

If you are a born nice guy I feel for you. It sucks. Really sucks, especially when you are young. However unless you get serious PTSD or brain damage your personality can only be modified but never reversed.

You CAN however do things to block out nice guy tendencies that turn women off. I recommend reading doc love, Corey Wayne and dr glovers “no more mr nice guy”. They give you step by step tactics to be more self aware of what you are doing and how it’s turning women off.

[Pamina]

I'm so tired of this same old incel talk. Guys like you fail to understand the difference between Nice Guys™ and guys who are genuinely nice people. For us women it's very easy to spot the difference between a guy who is nice simply because he's nice, and a guy who's nice because he expects something back from you - especially if it's romantic or sexual affection.
You also fail to understand that being actually nice to other people shouldn't be viewed as an accomplishment but as a given.
And most importantly, you fail to understand that being nice is *one* trait out of many traits that influences someone's attractiveness. So even if you happen to be a genuinely nice person, that alone doesn't make you attractive.

[Baobei]

I couldn't agree more! There are so many factors at play when it comes to attractiveness. Like, okay, you're nice but are you interesting? Smart? Funny? Attentive? And that's if we don't focus on the physical at all.

[Flotri66]

Totally right. I help people out all the time if I see that they need help. SOMETIMES it's an attractive woman and I'll offer help and sometimes they'll accept my help. When they don't I never feel like they're arrogant bitches or ungrateful, I understand that they've probably had a negative experience with someone that wanted something in return for the help. Just be nice for the sake of being nice. How hard can that be?

[Pamina]

@Baobei Exactly.

[Pamina]

@Flotri66 Apparently for some people it's hard work to be nice and that leads to their frustration when they don't get what they believe they "deserve" for their hard work.

[Rocky_Jocky57]

@Pamina Preach!!!

[Loulouchuchu]

Fake nice guys are a dime a dozen. They're everywhere, both my exes were "nice guys" but deep down very selfish and insecure people.
Young girls want cocky, etc because they are exciting and it feeds the list that they want to feel towards a guy..
Women want a nice guy, a protector and selfless person. I think it's very dependant on age of the woman but yet some older woman still like the drama of an idiot.

Show me a nice guy as described above and I'd marry him.. genuine nice guys are one in a million x

[holograph]

Women DO want nice guys. They want nice guys that have confidence and won't be pushed around by the entire world, though.

In some cases, a "nice guy" is not so nice. Look at Subreddit "niceguys" (also "nicegirls" because some women are the same way).

In some cases the "nice guy" might be too damn nice, such that he never stands up for himself, and a woman would expect a guy to stand up for her (and any kids).

In other cases, he might genuinely be a nice guy, but maybe he just needs to put himself out there and meet more people and take more chances.

[rozequarts]

I find that a lot of men who ask this question are the same men who expect girls to drop to their knees just because they got her flowers or something.

If you are a naturally good person to people regardless of gender and or relationship status, WITH a really cool personality (yes, I know that is subjective), girls will like you. Not all girls. But for sure you will find a few in your lifetime.

Personally I like a man who is balanced. I find introverted, laid back, (maybe a bit shy) guys to be the sexiest. They usually have a lot more going on up in their brain. Luckily I have found a few guys who are introverted and laidback but not insecure. Some shy guys are shy out of insecurity, and if he is TOO insecure, it would be a dealbreaker for me.

[westwordbound]

The dealbreaker happens when a man is more insecure than the woman, even slightly.

Insecure women are annoying to guys too BUT we have much higher tolerance for than vice versa. You girls usually cut guys off quick for this EVEN if he just is going through a rough patch.

[rozequarts]

@westwordbound I agree. Many women are insecure. Often more than males, and males have higher tolerance to put up with our asses. Kudos to you.

I think it depends on the woman though. Yeah - I have stretch marks here and there, but its not the level of insecurity that I would convince myself I am unlovable.

For me it is a dealbreaker when I constantly, and I mean CONSTANTLY reassure a guy he is amazing, worthy, attractive, valuable, etc etc etc. and he STILL refuses to believe it.

I dont usually like to put this out there - but even I struggle with mental health from time to time, but I still wouldn't need reassurance of someones love 24/7. Having to reassure someone all the time is like a second full-time job. Dare I say it, but if I am constantly reassuring him and building him, what is he doing for me? It would be more like a one-way relationship. Giving and giving, but receiving (love) is necessary for good solid foundations too.

[westwordbound]

I once drove a girl into dumping me by purposely acting more insecure than I would towards other women. Really shitty and douchey I admit. but I had a twisted yet noble reason for the madness. I loved every inch of her as a person but I lost interest in being in a romantic relationship with her. She was deeply in love with me at the time. I thought turning her off would make it easier for her to move on vs me saying that I didn’t want to sleep with her anymore because I lost attraction.

Well that worked too well. She not only broke up with me but did some exceptionally nasty, horrible and cruel after we split (DM if you want details). It still haunts me to this day.

Then I found myself in the exact same situation with a different girl this year. This time I was honest. She went ballistic, screamed, yelled and threatened to kill herself by throwing herself down in front of my truck. It was so bad I had to call the cops and have her detained for psych evaluation.

But both these women had one thing in common. They saw me as their SAVIOR because I was a “nice guy”. They didn’t take advantage of me but they felt like they could be more insecure around me without losing face because I wouldn’t judge them harshly.

Anyway you spin it there is really nothing good about being nice. It’s not masculine. Even if the girl wants to fuck like rabbits there is a part of her who sees me as her permanent counselor. Being that I generally want the best for people if feel obliged to help. But it’s always bad.

[rozequarts]

@westwordbound I will follow you first, it won't let me dm.

But I'll respond in dm.

[westwordbound]

Just followed you

[Shuri]

The problem is that a guy's definition of a nice guy is not the same as a woman's. Most self proclaimed nice guys are actually the assholes we refer to. Buying me dinner a few times and calling me beautiful and holding open a door doesn't make you a nice guy. Giving me your time and listening to my wants and needs and being their emotionally and being supportive is a nice guy. However, most men don't equate this to a nice guy.

You can be an alpha male and still be a nice guy. You can also be shy and be a nice guy. But it's more about personality and emotionally availability that make you a nice guy as well as how you treat me as a person. I shouldn't be treated the same as your friends or like someone you see as expendable.

[westwordbound]

I agree with what you said above logically. But here is the kicker. Almost every guy who has ever been friendzoned has most likely heard the girl call him “nice” or “sweet”. Then every guy who got a quickie or tryst never hears a girl call him “nice”.

I’ve gotten in romantic relationships with women (including attractive women) who say I’m “nice”. But that label never ever was used early in the relationship.

So to conclude I think our definitions of what a “nice guy” is might not be all that different.

[Shuri]

Trust me, it is. Nice guys also don’t think that being nice entitles then to a girlfriend. You can do all of the above and there’s still no attraction. The fact that you even responded with your comment further proves my point. A real nice guy would take the L for what it is and move on.

[westwordbound]

Totally agree that nobody is entitled to romance just for being nice. I’ve had very friendly, nice yet unattractive women I’ve had to decline before. But I decline early and directly. I don’t play dumb and keep accepting attentions and favors.

[RolandCuthbert]

Because to admit that they do not like a nice guy would make them seem like bad people. They don't want to appear to be bad people, so they say the like nice guys.

The strategy should be simple by now. Stop listening to women for advice on how to date women!

Point number 1!

To All the Men Who Think They Have Been Friendzoned, Passed Over, etc. Here is a Little Advice... ↗

[bitter_passenger]

You know what, I'm gonna push aside my dignity for once and tell you what kind of a man a girl (ME! Just me only) could want, I don't know about others. By "nice guys" girls usually mean, a man who has a bad and a good version of themselves. Be cocky and slightly aggressive while at the same time more laid back and passive. Girls don't just run after the negative, they search for man who has equal qualities to the things you've stated above.
Maybe I'm wrong, but, that's what I look for in a guy. A man needs to have flaws as well as his perfections. I know I have mine.

[Hypnos0929]

I think your right for a decent majority or plurality of women, in the case of plurality I'll say a lot of women just don't know what they want until they're too late to get it. Women are much more complex than guys so when women say they want nice guys they want a guy who has traits that appeal to her but don't destroy her personality.

[hahahmm]

Yes & no. I think women go through phases. Maybe think of it as a branch in the road. Most start out just wanting fun & excitement. The ‘nice’ guy is too boring. Then the road splits into 3 directions:
Safe, dependable guy who is easily manipulated (aka ‘nice guy’)
Safe, dependable guy who is a leader.
Fun & excitement. Probably with an easy to manipulate ‘bad boy’. This lane is just like the 1st road they were on.

Some women pick one road. But women are known to multitask. She may pick multiple roads at the same time too.

[viajen]

It's not cocky and slightly more aggressive.

It's more confidence and giving the impression that you can handle any situation, without being arrogant.

I haven't met a single woman who has been in a relationship with a cocky, territorial guy and has wanted the same thing again.

This idea that women don't go for "nice guys" automatically implies that you're expecting something in return for being nice to women.

[MsElizabeth96]

You said it👏🏻👏🏻^

[JackRoss129]

This is a fantastic question, well worded as well. I think women do this because most people want to see themselves as having high moral standards and capable of upholding a moral compass, whether most women do this is another story. So when the question is posed to a woman: Do you want a nice guy or a strong man; most women tend to answer I don't care about looks, I just want a guy to treat me right, or something along those lines. This creates the illusion they are morally sound and provides a cloak of moral respectability in which they can cover their insecurities and fragilities with. Which ironically they seek to remedy by seeking the attention of a 'confident' man who will provide direction they are so lacking themselves.