Should nice guys just give up already?

[Anonymous]

This has been bothering me for a while now, but a post that I saw the other day finally made me put the question out there. The post that I saw stated that nice guys were a turn off. Unfortunately, I've seen comments like that before, too, often enough that it concerns me.

I'm not talking about "nice guys" in the sense that all they do is whine about the friend zone, or have self confidence issues, but rather men who genuinely respect women and are seeking a fulfilling relationship. Men who are actually nice to women.

There seems to be a general opinion that those nice guys are doomed to be alone for the rest of their lives, because nobody wants a "nice guy". My question is, then, whether those nice guys should just become bitter assholes that treat women like crap? It seems to me that if women don't want a "nice guy", then they're saying they want an asshole. Other than that, what's left?

Some (not all) women complain that men are rapists and mysoginists, and boys need to be taught to respect women. Yet, when those same women meet a guy who does respect them, they label him a "nice guy" and want nothing to do with him. What the hell?

For the record, I am not asking for me, as I have a girlfriend, and we're very happy together. I just don't get the contradictory messages out there concerning nice guys. Anyone have any thoughts?

[still_waiting]

Where do I begin?
When a girl says she doesn't like nice guys (I've never witnessed this but ok) she isn't saying "I want a jerk who spits on me. " Most girls don't want a guy who is a doormat, and treats us like a princess. That's boring. That's not a relationship. We want someone who is firm and dominant, but we want him to respect us. No girl wants to date a jerk who cheats and cusses at her.
And I've seen this at least 345577755457 times on this site. A guy saying, "I'm nice and yet no one will date me. So I am going to be a mean asswipe misogynist now! " Really? If you were TRULY nice you wouldn't have the heart to be a dick. And hmmm- ever consider that it takes MORE than a kind demeanor to get a lover? Hell most people are nice for the most part, it doesn't mean dates fill up their schedules. No girl is like damnnn he's so nice it takes my breath away! What about being funny, smart, outgoing? And attractive? There's SO MUCH MORE to it. So if you're soooo nice and sweet but not getting a girl maybe you're lacking something?
I can see that you're really immature. "Women complain about rapists..." YES WE COMPLAIN ABOUT RAPISTS. shouldn't WE ALL? How the fuck is that relevant? So if we don't want a "nice guy" we can't complain about rape, or misogyny? Just from this paragraph I can see that you're not nice you're an ass!
You are only "nice" to get what you want. If you are saying you'll stop being "nice" so you can get girls then it just goes to show that its a facade to get what you want.

[straightguy01]

I think that's the riddle that can never be solved... most women refuse to understand that respect and dominance are MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE... DOMINANCE COMES FROM DISRESPECT... if the person is domineering they can't be respectful a priori...

[Asker]

I specifically said that this wasn't about me. I was compiling this question based upon several other questions/responses that I have seen on this site and others which support the contradictions that I've outlined. If you want to this k that I am immature and only being nice to get what I want, then that is your prerogative, although my girlfriend would disagree.

Your attitude and insults clearly mark you as the one who is immature.

[still_waiting]

Your comment about rapists was your comment, not one you found elsewhere. That's the part that pissed me off.

[Asker]

I apologize for that, but I have actually seen that more than once. You may be surprised, but it's not that uncommon of a sentiment.

[still_waiting]

You didn't make it clear that your entire spiel was composed of different statements from guys on the Internet.

[still_waiting]

@straightdude01 BIG difference between dominant and domineering

[straightguy01]

what do women mean by "dominant"? please clarify... caring or something different? to me the word dominant makes it sound like the guy is supposed to be a control freak... either i misunderstand the term dominant or the term is misused and another word should be used to describe it...

[still_waiting]

Straightguy, you misunderstand it. I see it as someone who is firm and likes to be involved. Not someone who micomanages

[straightguy01]

i see... thanks for the clarification... i think these are good qualities but i would have never thought of such people as being dominant... maybe women should use another term... obviously girls and guys understand the word "dominant" differently...

[still_waiting]

I guess there's a better word.

[Anonymous]

I think the problem is that the "nice guys" you mentioned who whine about the friendzone, etc. tend to pretend to be nice to try to manipulate women into having sex with them, and they make women suspicious of all "nice" guys. I've dated lots of men who seemed nice at first, only to find out later that they were bragging about how they pretended to like stuff I did, or how hilarious it was that I actually believed they cared about my interests, etc. It got to the point where anytime a guy acted nice I just assumed he was too good to be true and faking it. At least jerks were honest about being jerks.

I eventually did marry a genuinely nice, decent human being, but I spent the first 4 months wondering what was wrong with him... until I finally figured out that he really was just a good person.

I'm not even sure it's a gender thing. Just that most people are jerks, and the actual nice person percentage is very, very tiny. I think most women would like a nice guy, but they aren't sure if they actually exist. So, it's a choice between blatantly jerkish, or manipulative and jerkish.

[straightguy01]

This should have been chosen as MH. I 100% agree with your post.

[Asker]

There have been so many great posts on here that I wish I could choose several as most helpful! :-(

[thataznbabygirl]

omg no thats bs. who doesn't like a guy or girl who treats them well and loves and respects them?
its the going overboard too fast that turns people off.
if you're attracted to someone go for it and drop them hints. if they take them thats when u have the ok to give them more of yourself. and it should be a privilege to the other person that they're getting the opportunity to experience this loving side of u. if that person doesn't appreciate u, they're the wrong person to get to know. on to the next one~
so be the nice person that u are damit :) thats how u end up with the keepers

[Asker]

That's a very helpful response. Thank you for your comment.

[thataznbabygirl]

=)) np!

[stevemeh]

Men dont gst hints as easily. Be direct.

[kheserthorpe]

I guess I'd say that women want men who are nice, and respectful, from a position of strength, not from a position of supplication. The problem a lot of "nice guys" have is that they are very nice, respectful but seem weak and project that they are being nice and respectful out of fear, and a need to please, Women find that very unattractive.

To a large extent, being nice is irrelevant. If 'nice' creeps into doormat status, its a negative. If women see you being nice in a way that is obviously not trying to impress anyone, it can be a positive. About a month ago I was helping a stranger carry something and a woman came up to me to tell me how impressed she was. She was interested, on top of that. Women are likely to be attracted when they catch you doing something nice out of genuine benevolence.

Respect is sort of good, unless its code for 'treats like a delicate easily offended flower'. Part of actually respecting someone is treating them like a grown up who doesn't need to be protected from everything.

And if respect is code for asexual, that's not a plus either. Women like to have sex with men who are comfortable with their own sexuality. Beyond it being a drag if your partner has hangups, many women are prone to feeling bad or dirty or slutty if they think they are more perverted or wilder than they are 'supposed to be'. You being comfortable with sex creates a safe space for them to be sexual while feeling like they won't be judged for it.

[TheStaff_Sergeant]

This.

[thataznbabygirl]

wow this is so true. :o

[Asker]

That's pretty much exactly what I was thinking, and it's nice to have someone confirm my own thoughts.

[stevemeh]

Men get tired of waiting, being told the many excuses women have to offer them, we just get sick of it especially when those same women go after total assholes or brag about how they fucked around with someone else they just met and completely disregard any of us.

Eventually men just stop being nice altogether and women will start to wonder where all the good men have gone when they get older and have had their fill of fun, those jerks won't stick around and will go around ruining younger women. This is what turns women bitter in a twist of irony. This is what turns men bitter as well at a younger age and they start treating women like crap, they might as well have fun making women feel miserable cause there is nothing more a woman can and will offer them.

I wonder what would happen if these bitter men just abandoned society altogether, just disapeared and left women to all the " worthy and sexy" men. Would it benefit the rest of of the human race? Men dont owe anything to anybody, especially women that dont even want them. Why should men stick around if they can live like royalty out in the wilderness? What if they just commited mass suicides out in broad daylight in protest? What will happen then? Nobody wanted these men in life so why start caring after they are dead?

Women should wait and see I guess since they have no problem telling men to wait for a woman that clearly will never be there for him.

[JayCasper777]

Yes. Yeah. Uh huh. Mm hhmm. Definitely.
Throw down the nice guy badge or whatever. Don't be nice anymore. Women clearly hate nice guys that's why there's so many nice dudes alone and frustrated.
You know they hate niceness in a man.
Why continue lmao.

You ain't gotta be bad. Just don't be nice.
Women are liars. They lie all the time.
They say.. anything, really lol, and you should just ignore it. Watch her actions that's who she truly is. Her words are just manipulation noises. Don't listen.
Do what you've seen works and enjoy your life. Again you don't have to be bad. You just can't be nice. That means:

No first date, no gifts, no paying for stuff.
No special treatment. Go up to women and talk to them, ask for they're contact details. She says yes you invite her to your house for sex within 48hours lmao. She says no just walk away, she don't like you and her opinion don't matter. This is how women work. This is how the bad guy do it. It works for them, nice guys be here bitching all day. Asking women why they hate them. The women are lying to you. They hate nice guys, stop being a nice guy start being a normal guy. Go enjoy your life.

[Mesonfielde]

"Nice guys" should stop feeling so entitled and invested in a fantasy when apparently they don't even know the person well enough to assess whether they would say yes or no to being asked out.

And also, maybe they should stop being so interested in txpical extroverts, as they are clearly incapable of long-lasting relationships, as they would have to value the other person for their persona, but as extroverts, they barely even know themselves and just waltz out to indulge in self-destructive behavior. Any extroverts who disagree are welcome to disagree with me in the comments, but I have still not known a single extrovert of my age or below (aka the only exception for a certain level of social maturity i know is of age 28 and I am 22) for whom this wasn't true in this fashion.

[yaddayaddayadda02]

You claim you're not talking about guys who whine about the friend zone, but then go on to describe that women don't want "nice guys" using the same definition that the whiners you mention use.

Are you claiming you're an asshole? Because you can't claim that girls only want assholes, and yet have a girlfriend, can you?

[straightguy01]

actually judging from his question he is an ashole... that's why he has a girlfriend lol...

[Asker]

I'm just making generalizations based upon what I've seen posted. I went through a number of girlfriends before I found the one that I should be with. My question was directed more towards the contradictions that exist around nice guys and assholes.

[Anonymous]

If they are the sort of "nice" guys you seem to be talking about, ie a loser, then yeah.

If not, they can come to a site like this and learn that it's not about being nice or being a jerk. It's about having more to your personality than "nice".

"Nice" is too often a synonym for "boring".

It's about being interesting, funny, making something of your life and making it the sort of life that is appealing for a partner to want to join.

If the only thing they're bringing to a potential partner right now is "I'm not an abusive jerk, I won't beat you up or cheat on you", guess what? That's NOT a "plus" for them.

BECAUSE THAT SHOULD COME AS STANDARD ON ALL MALES.

That's like trying to sell a car by pointing out it has 4 wheels and an engine.

So fucking what?

[circlebill]

Is any man really so 2-dimensional that "nice" is his entire personality? I think we get off into nonsense to even pretend somebody is like that! Where did this crazy notion even come from? Have you ever seen a man who was nothing but nice?

[Opinion Owner]

Yeah, many times on this website. Stick around and see. They act like being nice is some sort of currency that you put into women, and sex should come out at the end like a vending machine.

[circlebill]

I question the very existence of any human being (man or woman) whose entire personality is only "nice". To support the notion that such people actually exist you stated, "They act like being nice is some sort of currency that you put into women, and sex should come out at the end like a vending machine." I'm sorry, but this offers no support! ALL human beings have a wide range of feelings, emotions, desires, thoughts, abilities, decisions, likes, dislikes, etcetera, that make up their personalities. Obviously nether you nor anyone else in this world has ever seen a human being whose entire personality only consisted of "nice". On the dating perspective, perhaps you mean it's important for nice guys to create and project a crafted FAKE personality that would suit the preferences of women. Since many women show a preference for loud, obnoxious jerks, maybe your vending machines phrase should go something like this:

Put "obnoxious jerk" behavior coins into women until sex comes out.

[kangle]

There is a nice dialogue in X MEN movie... "gals flirt with bad guys but take home good guys"... Its 100% true. When it comes to choosing a life partner, nice guys r more trusted. Men would have been critisized by women had it not been existance of nice guys. The only problem with nice guys ( I observed) that during dating phase they r too revealing whereas bad boys keep mystery so r interesting to gals. Thats y they dont get friend zoned easily. Be interesting. N ya good guys rule d world:)

[Asker]

That's a very interesting viewpoint about the mystery. It's not something that is mentioned a lot when discussing this subject, but I think you may be onto something there.

[kangle]

Yep because I m into it lols. I dated a guy who was too mysterious to me and rejected a guy who was nice and too caring but too revealing. It turned out that d mystery man was a jerk. Problem with nice guys is they r too predictable thats y gals end up falling for bad boys. But I assure u, when it comes to long term relationship, gals wnt good guy who can b caring and nurturer

[stevemeh]

The only reason a woman will ever want a nice guy is after she's been used up by the jerk, then when a woman finds the nice guy boring she will just cheat anyway with another badboy.

[daybydaydreamer90]

please come find me... I can't seem to find a nice guy... They are as rare as ever now... and to answer your question please don't stop being who you are... I believe you are the way that you are so you won't have to weed out the girls who don't deserve your time and effort.

[kheserthorpe]

There are masses of nice guys all over the place.

Nice, masculine and confident guys who are single is a different story.

[daybydaydreamer90]

I need to approach them on my own... I'm sure.

[kheserthorpe]

That might help. Though you might also get frustrated with them in relationships.

We really do raise boys nowadays to be... supplicating and timid. Nice, well behaved sweet boys. And then nobody wants them (not the working world, not women).

Of course its in them to be more then that, but most are struggling to grow up on their own

[daybydaydreamer90]

I honestly think they are misinterpreted, with all the male role models out there what do you expect there really isn;t any repect for women now a days, women are always objectified... and that is the lesson boys who turn into men learn... the ones who really truly repect women are never confident that this is what women want because some women have now grown accustomed to accept this about males.

[kheserthorpe]

I think there's this phantom group of guys who are obviously 'jerks', and then there's jerk terror to not be like them. Nice guys are trying so hard not to be misogynist rapists that they can't actually make a sexual joke when flirting for fear it's rude. They desexualize themselves because they think anything else is 'being a jerk'. Overall I'd say their 'jerk vs. okay' meter is off.

[straightguy01]

@daybydaydreamer90
actually i think Asker is a troll because nice guys never consider becoming an asshole... anyway...
This world needs more women like you who appreciate nice guys...

[straightguy01]

@kheserthorpe
the problem is that when a nice guy encounters a misgynistic woman the misogynistic woman is unfriendly because the nice guy is too nice (which she sees as unmanly)... but the nice guy thinks she doesn't like him because he is NOT NICE enough... so the guy is trying to be even nicer... to the extent that he is seen as uninterested and even asexual... that is the real problem...

[circlebill]

Helo daybydaydreamer90! Your existence is very confusing. Men who make a point of treating women with high courtesy and respect are typically treated with disdain and even hatred! In popular current culture, the "nice guy" is the disgusting lowest form of life and famous for being shunned by women. Bless you for your kindness! But, why are YOU different? Why don't you hate nice guys like so many other females seem to do?

[daybydaydreamer90]

@circlebill I think I am the way that I am because I have known some of the best men who have treated women with respect and dignity, there for them, dependable, genuine men. I am a rarity In the sense that most women have a different opinion of a " nice guy" and perhaps many women are afraid a nice guy may not be nice in the end and a guy who is a jerk is a jerk from the beginning and will be a jerk throughout... unless they can mold him and change him into what they want him to be, or so they think. A man who treats me with respect deserves mine.

[Poetically_Blessed]

I believe nice guys are the best we need more nice guys because honestly who wants to be with a man who cheats and lies instead of a guy who respect you and will be there for you and treat you like her queen. Girls can be stupid and think that bad boys are better but they will find out how bad boys are for them. We need more men who respect females and want an actual relationship with her and not just some hook up.

[stevemeh]

Once the bad boys ruin the owmen, nice giys dont want em. Why should nice guys ever stay nice when they can get more out of becoming jerks?

[kambo_trick3y]

A lot of nice guys think the only way to be a nice guy is to worship the girl and do her every bidding.

That's not a nice guy, that's a pussy, and if the girl wanted a pussy, all she'd have to do is check in between her legs to find one.

Having strength and being a nice guy IS possible, I don't know why so many guys think this is some strange concept.

[straightguy01]

what kind of idiot uses "pussy" as an insult...

[kambo_trick3y]

Sent you a message, if you'd like to take this to personal, feel free my man.

[straightguy01]

wtf... lol... you are a closet homosexual judging from your vocabulary and behavior... quit hitting on the guys on the internet... better buy yourself a dildo to begin with...

[kambo_trick3y]

Ah, I see, a troll. Ignored. Have fun playing with yourself my man.

[kheserthorpe]

Agree.

I think the reason its a strange concept is we raise boys to be spineless, and teach them a definition of 'respectful' that makes them asexual. The only guys who are getting anywhere then are little selfish jerks who ignore what they were taught.

We do a -horrible- job of molding decent, caring and compassionate boys into being strong, brave, capable and still compassionate men.

[BertMacklinFBI]

its not so white and black when you say treat women like crap and become assholes. no women wants that of course, she wants a real man. and I shouldn't have to define what a real man is. but this topics been done so many times that im just not feeling it right now hahaa :D

[jenna928]

Anyone who says nice guys are doomed to be alone for the rest of their lives is a total moron. This world needs nice guys. What's sad is when nice guys stop being nice because they think no one wants them. If a girl is stupid enough to pass up a nice guy, she is a total moron, because nice guys are rare and amazing and deserve to find nice girls if there are any of those left.

[circlebill]

There really isn't much reinforcement from most women for being a genuine respectful, caring nice guy. Most women seem to automatically consider nice guys to be things like: weak, lame, clingy, boring and basically not worthy of even being alive! YES IT IS THAT BAD! It shouldn't be, but it is! The QA raises a resonating issue that shouldn't exist! Thank you for existing! You spread hope!

[Anonymous]

My boyfriend is really nice and respectful, I've never heard him make a mean comment about any girl. He treats me like a princess. Men (not you, per se) that whine about women not liking them because they are too nice, probably aren't that nice.

[mshaker]

You can be a "nice Guy". Not a problem, that is what a gentleman is. But you must also have abit of an asshole side to you.

You need to find an equal balance. ;)

[Asker]

Lol, simple, yet effective, huh?

[mshaker]

You got it. Thats what a nice guy is. Simple yet affective. You must have a balance.

[pr3ttybr0wn]

if ur a nice guy with a gf then ur living proof they shouldn't give up

[Asker]

Haha, I think I'm pretty nice, anyway, so maybe there is hope for other guys like me. :-)

[Underdog212]

Men who whine about not "getting any" or try to hard to be the nice guy aren't appealing to me. But guys who are respectful are a huge turn on, for me anyway. I get what you're saying though, my boyfriend says he always struggled to get the girls he liked because he was known as "the nice guy" and all of his friends were the 'treat em mean to keep em keen' type. I guess it's just a matter of finding the right person.

What's for you, won't go by you!

[gypsybee]

For whatever reason I find this question annoying. You need to look at yourself and rethink what you are doing if it isn't working

[Asker]

I'm sorry that you find the question annoying. As I stated, I have someone that I'm very happy with, so this is not about me. I was simply trying to understand the contradictions, that's all.

[Anonymous]

If the kindness is coming from a genuine place, it's cool and actually admirable.

If he's doing it because he think's it'll get him laid he should probably fuck off.

[circlebill]

I would like to know where people even get this crazy notion of a man being "nice" to get laid? When did being "nice" become become a seduction strategy? Has any man actualy gotten sex that way? I mean, what is this? An actual nice guy doesn't pressure a woman for sex. He might HOPE to eventually reach a sexual level in a relationship! Is that the Problem? Hoping without permission?

[youknowitt]

You should just... Pick the right girls who would appreciate you babe

[Prof_Don]

It's about being a high-esteem, stern, aggressive man... while respecting others initially until they disrespect you.

[Prof_Don]

This balance isn't as hard to find as you would believe. It's all about being respectful to others, and immediately addressing any inking of disrespect or dismissiveness of you that you encounter (to signify strength).

[Anonymous]

I'm actually trying to get a guy exactly like the one you described.

[Asker]

That's good to hear. There is some hope for nice guys, after all. :-)

I hope you find one!

[Insaan]

I am transforming myself slowly and slowly. I would soon loose my nice guy tag soon.