'Nice Guy' Haters Need to Learn How to Distinguish 'Nice Guys' from Actual Nice Guys

Dear 'nice guy' haters,

Not all nice guys are just pretending to be nice to get into a girls pants,

Not all nice guys are ugly, boring guys trying to get with women out of their league,

'Nice Guy' Haters Need to Learn How to Distinguish 'Nice Guys' from Actual Nice Guys

Not all nice guys lack the self-respect to call it quits with a woman not interested in them (the 'friendzone'),

Not all nice guys believe in the friendzone,

'Nice Guy' Haters Need to Learn How to Distinguish 'Nice Guys' from Actual Nice Guys

Some nice guys are more direct about their attraction to a woman,

Not all nice guys think they are owed sex,

'Nice Guy' Haters Need to Learn How to Distinguish 'Nice Guys' from Actual Nice Guys

Pointing out that the bad guys often get women doesn't mean you think you are owed sex,

Pointing out that some women play games like hot and cold doesn't mean the guy is not nice,

'Nice Guy' Haters Need to Learn How to Distinguish 'Nice Guys' from Actual Nice Guys

Pointing out that men are expected to do most of the work (approaching, paying for date, making most of the conversation, etc.) does not mean the guy is not nice,

Pointing out that it's ridiculously hard for some men to get a girlfriend does not mean the guy is not nice,

'Nice Guy' Haters Need to Learn How to Distinguish 'Nice Guys' from Actual Nice Guys

Pointing out that many women act ridiculously about doing things liks saying 'hi, how are you' on online dating does not mean that the guy is not nice,

Pointing out that many women expect guys to hold the burden of conversation does not mean the guy is not nice,

'Nice Guy' Haters Need to Learn How to Distinguish 'Nice Guys' from Actual Nice Guys

Pointing out that often times personality attributes like introversion, genuine compassion and analytical facilities are often unattractive to women does not mean that the guy is not nice,

Pointing out that some women have taken guys for a ride because they showed her niceness does not mean the guy thought he was owed sex.

'Nice Guy' Haters Need to Learn How to Distinguish 'Nice Guys' from Actual Nice Guys

Dear 'nice guy' haters,

Stop the hatred.

'Nice Guy' Haters Need to Learn How to Distinguish 'Nice Guys' from Actual Nice Guys

Stop trying to shame nice guys,

Stop trying to justify the bad decisions that some women make.

'Nice Guy' Haters Need to Learn How to Distinguish 'Nice Guys' from Actual Nice Guys

Stop telling them they need to suck it up and that it's their fault the way things are,

Stop telling them they're just pansies and beta males just because they are respectful to women and want to know why they are not successful.

'Nice Guy' Haters Need to Learn How to Distinguish 'Nice Guys' from Actual Nice Guys

Nice guy haters are hurting the wrong kinds of guys nowadays by offering generic and cliched advice to men with legitimate complaints and actual questions about how they can improve and become more successful with women. These people are hurting actual nice guys by giving them illegitimate criticism and trying to help the kind of guy (the so-called 'nice guy') that will never listen to them anyway.

In many ways, the nice guy hater has become worse than the fake 'nice guy' internet phenomenon - yes that's right, the nice guy hater is worse than pretend 'nice guys'. That's because people pay attention to the ideas and misconceptions of the latter and in doing so, his ideas and misconceptions about women actually become more popular and well-spread - not less popular. Yes, that's right nice guy haters: by attempting to address this type of man's concerns you are not only hurting genuine nice guys, but you are helping to spread around the types of false beliefs that the fake 'nice guy' holds.

'Nice Guy' Haters Need to Learn How to Distinguish 'Nice Guys' from Actual Nice Guys
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Most Helpful Guy

  • ReboundyJimmy
    A thousand thumbs up for this one!

    I would also add that all forms of negativity from one person to another fall under the category of just being shitty because your life sucks.

    Racists, homophobes, sexists, the Neomasculinity "feminists are to blame" movement, crazy Right-Wingers, crazy Regressive Leftists, all of them. They are defusing responsibility for their own unhappiness by dumping on groups of people and it's too obvious.

    Happy people help others when they're down and not kick them with some passive-aggressive, holier than thou Dr. Phil "tough love" bullshit.

    The same thing goes for picking on any guy who struggles with women. All of this Alpha-Beta talk is silly.

    However, if I could ad one nuance here (from a guy's perspective), a lot of Nice Guy hate comes from former Nice Guys who are passionate about being more authentic - because they have deeply rooted pain from being shit on by women and life when they were too nice.

    Still, a true "Alpha" would always help another guy who needs it because he's above labels and he is a stand up guy who derives no benefit from putting others down.

    Lesson: Labels are dumb. Just be cool to everyone, even if they're struggling. Then, you'll look awesome to everyone because you ARE awesome.

    Author's note: Damn, this rant came out pretty good! Definitely going on the blog...
    Is this still revelant?
    • the_rake

      ' a lot of Nice Guy hate comes from former Nice Guys who are passionate about being more authentic - because they have deeply rooted pain from being shit on by women and life when they were too nice. '

      I was gonna answer this but you answered for me:

      'Still, a true "Alpha" would always help another guy who needs it because he's above labels and he is a stand up guy who derives no benefit from putting others down. '

      Basically yeah. Although I identify with guys that have 'risen from the ashes', so to speak, I believe that the self-improvement stage is just 'stage #2' so to speak (although actually, self-improvement continues for the rest of your life). Learning to empathise with the guys trying to go through the same process you have already been through is 'stage #3'.

      'Definitely going on the blog...'

      Haha, thanks man. I definitely need to get a blog.

Most Helpful Girl

  • aliceinwonderland69
    So I'm not allowed to talk about misogyny because it is just advertising those views making people more misogynistic. So by logical extension no one is allowed to criticise any view they don't agree with in case they make it more prolific.

    So no one is allowed to speak up against hatred. No one is allowed to criticise sexism, racism homophobia or any form of bigotry. I would imagine that without dissenting voices hatred would become much more acceptable.

    If your allowed to criticise female behaviour then I'm allowed to counter critique. That's how debate works. You can't have your cake and eat it. Why should only men get free speech?

    This is just another misogynistic attempt to silence women.

    Is this still revelant?
    • And just how is the concept of men bringing up legitimate concerns and asking reasonable questions of "why" and "how" that don't bash women in any way misogynistic?

    • In the take, as I read it, he distinguishes between two types of nice guys; one that is nice and one that is misogynistic. In the last two paragraphs he claims that talking about the misogynistic 'nice guys' just advertises their views and makes them more prolific.

      Now, if I take this to its logical extension, what he is saying is that people can't disagree with other views openly for fear of advertising the opposing view and achieving the opposite of their aim to disparage it. So no one is allowed to criticise anyone. So there can be no debate.

      This is a very irrational justification for silencing people who speak up against misogyny. I think it is misogynistic to tell women they cannot criticise misogynists. Just like I think it would be racist to tell black people they can't talk about racism. So he is just another dumb misogynist trying to silence women who speak up against misogyny.

    • the_rake

      ' Now, if I take this to its logical extension, what he is saying is that people can't disagree with other views openly for fear of advertising the opposing view '

      You'd be surprised how damning and frustrating it is when a point of view you have is blatantly washed out and ignored.

    • Show All

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What Girls & Guys Said

416
  • Chief16
    And that's exactly why a nice guy shouldn't be described from the perspective of a woman. Let's just stop giving a damn about what women think about us for a second, the actual nice guys will start showing up then.
    49.media.tumblr.com/.../...udJ0jC1rz4xj6o1_400.gif
    Good Take.
    • the_rake

      ' And that's exactly why a nice guy shouldn't be described from the perspective of a woman. '

      Yes, yes, yes!

    • So women aren't allowed to talk about misogyny? Are black people allowed to talk about racism? I would love it if you 'genuine nice guys' started calling out misogyny but I don't see it happening.

    • the_rake

      @aliceinwonderland69

      I think we need to separate political, economic and sexual misogyny from the mere act of 'being a nice guy'

    • Show All
  • dominiquois
    I've never met a sane person that hated genuinely nice person. Unless you have no social skills then most people can tell the difference between genuine niceness and fake niceness after a while.
    • the_rake

      there are lots of takes on this site that express this sentiment in my view - that nice guys think the world owes them and that they are bitter just because they cannot get some girl out of their league.

      www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a26030-the-irony-of-nice-guys

      www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a25841-guys-we-can-take-the-hate

      www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a26483-guest-feature-expert-april-masini-explains-why-nice-guys-finish-last

      There was also this jenna marbles video about nice guys that falls prey to all of the fallacies and nice guy generalisations I mention in the take:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VXXXX9iVPI

      The video actually makes me feel a little sick, just because everything she says sounds so glib and conceited. She really either has no idea what she is saying, or she says these things because she does not care who she hurts.

    • Well its true. Every time I like a nice guy as a person whether he was ugly or handsome I liked the fact that he was nice. But just because you're nice doesn't mean I want you to stick your dick in me. Jenna Marbles 90% of what she said was true even though you might have not liked they're delivery. Beautiful girls most of the time like beautiful men. Rich people like other rich people. Successful people usually stick to other successful people. Intelligent people with other intelligent people. When you have something that is highly prized and sought after you become the prize. That's just the cold-blooded truth. A beautiful woman is not very common so she will have a huge number of guys to CHOOSE from because if she weren't so beautiful she wouldn't have all those men after her. Since the woman controls reproduction beautiful or not then the women gets to decide whether she A) wants you specifically or B) even wants to have sex/reproduce. I don't know blame God.

    • Women do the choosing regardless of what they look like because they have to be the ones to open their legs. A beautiful woman being a woman knows this. She says why on earth would I let somebody I find ugly to use my body. Why should they be happy when I'm disgusted? I'm the beautiful one and I have options! So obviously they're going to use their golden ticket to find their golden prince (and then maybe kick him out I don't know lol). Rich people do the same thing. Why should a poor person leech off of me when I'm the one with the money. That's why people seek they're equal because unequal relationships are parasitical. Of course there are beautiful women that waste their beauty on ugly men but they are not the majority. Having said that nice guys that act nice ONLY to impress a girl are doing it for shallow, dishonest reasons. If the girl were unattractive they would not be as nice or flat out mean. Beautiful women know this and hate this. So that's why they're usually picky.

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  • BuchitaBuchys
    I agree. But it's the same discussion as feminists vs feminazis.
    The vocal minority tainted the name/label too much.

    I don't hate nice people. And I try to distinguish "nice" guys (the cliche, entitled, undercover women haters) from genuine and kind guys. Because we like kind men who treat us AND EVERYONE else with respect. Because that's their personality, not just for a relationship or sex.
    • the_rake

      'But it's the same discussion as feminists vs feminazis.'

      This is the reason why I was careful not to mention 'feminism' in the mytake, but I have a few things to say about this also - which deserves a separate mytake, in all honesty.

    • If it's pro feminism, don't even bother lol many of these people will shove their fingers in their ears and rather not hear it.
      But if it's anti fem, you'll fit right in lol

    • the_rake

      I'm neither pro nor anti. I am an egalitarian :)

  • Applefan1
    Thank you!!! someone had to say it!!! I am fed up of actually being a nice person and being abused for it. It makes me wonder why I even bother being nice. Great take mate. :)
  • OlderAndWiser
    • the_rake

      thank you,
      yes, with hindsight my comment was harsh but I still feel that this take of yours misses certain details.

    • Yes, my comments were explanatory and yours were more chastising. I assume you have encountered significant frustration with this issue.

    • the_rake

      Yes, although one should not assume. With respect, although my comments were indeed chastising, there were certain elements that you neglected to mention in the discussion about nice guys (which has become a much broader topic than it originated as).

    • Show All
  • MrMaskyMoon
    I pretend to be nice because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings... I sometimes accidentally manipulate people without realising... I don't mean to hurt anyone but the nice guy thing is not so simple my friend..
    • the_rake

      'I pretend to be nice because I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings'

      Then if you do not want to hurt people's feelings, it is genuine. People that pretend to be nice do so for the sake of appearances because they want to be seen in a favourable light.

      ' I don't mean to hurt anyone but the nice guy thing is not so simple my friend'

      Yes, I realise that it is not so simple. In my take there is a list of factors I did not account for, e. g. nice guys in a lower league that do not chase models but frustrated with lesser attractive women regardless, guys that are sometimes nice but not always, people having different perceptions of what is meant by niceness... the list goes on and on.

      However, I believe that on the whole, I have cleared up more misconceptions than I have created. In particular, I have cleared up the most fundamental misconceptions related to attractiveness and authenticity.

    • Sorry bro I misunderstood your points. Although English is my first language I tend to take things weirdly. Thank you for your response though :)

    • the_rake

      that's ok, I had thought myself that even this take does not take into account all of the factors involved.

  • Curious_Jane
    There are nice guy haters? I guess those girls are self haters and need help. Guess they wanted to be treated like dirt/garbage.

    • the_rake

      It is more that they see nice guys as wanting something rather than being genuinely nice to someone and if a guy complains that he is unsuccessful with girls, it is always because he needs to work on himself rather than because he has been treated like shit. I don't think people do it on purpose and 'nice guy hatred' is a strong term but there are definitely people that do not understand things in the way that only a nice guy could understand.

      For example in this take (https://www. girlsaskguys. com/dating/a25841-guys-we-can-take-the-hate) the girl suffers from similar baggage. She thinks it ok to let guys wine and dine them and have lots of guys chasing at one time - maybe because she thinks they are all after one thing and they're gonna 'dump [women] for a younger model at the first sign of a wrinkle or stretch mark'.

    • the_rake

      [cont.]

      KaylaS91 also posted this take about nice guys: www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a26030-the-irony-of-nice-guys

      And there was this also, www.girlsaskguys.com/.../a26483-guest-feature-expert-april-masini-explains-why-nice-guys-finish-last

      I explained what I felt was wrong with all of these takes in the comment sections, so you can Ctrl + F and type in ' the_rake ' to see what my objections were.

      Finally, nice guys on the whole just don't really get what they want from girls (sex, relationships, whatever). Sure, they aren't owed it but I'm just pointing this out.

    • Thats just sad how some girls think this way. But not all are like this.

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  • Moose2coolvargas
    Hey you like me you like me. If you don't you dont, but if you don't I'll probably be racking my brain trying to figure out why not 😛
    • the_rake

      ' but if you don't I'll probably be racking my brain trying to figure out why not '

      haha yes that is a good way of putting it. I think that this 'confused curiosity' of the good man (I say 'good man' instead of 'nice guy') is often mistaken for a belief that he is owed.

    • Can't explain it man, I've met some that can't stand my existence I guess... lol

    • the_rake

      I wouldn't worry too much. Lots of girls are 'catty'. There are evolutionary and PUA theories about this - 'shit-testing', essentially women are testing a guys reproductive fitness by tugging his strings to see how confidently he responds. Evolutionarily this makes sense, but socially it is immoral behaviour. It's like if a guy called a woman fat, that would make evolutionary sense because he does not want to sleep with fat women, but most social norms would consider this 'rudeness'.

  • Walls_and_Doors
    "Stop telling them they're just pansies and beta males just because they are respectful to women and want to know why they are not successful."

    ... No.
  • zagor
    To avoid the myriad misunderstandings due to various definitions of the term I move we ban the use of the phrase "nice guy" from these forums.
    • the_rake

      Yes, more and more people are beginning to talk about 'good guys' instead, e. g. @Pavlove's latest take marks such a point in this trend. It is important however that this label does not become equally tainted.

  • Wisenguber
    Love this... great Take.. keep it going bro.
  • ColinHarvey
    THESE PRETZELS ARE MAKING ME THIRSTY.
  • FilthyPervert
    Nice guys finish last.
  • Anonymous
    If he is a nice guy he won't think that you owe him anything. Muchless a pitty fuck
  • Anonymous
    No true scotsman fallacy detected.
    • the_rake

      not really.

      there's other 'true scotsmen' in this scenario that certainly are boring and unattractive. they can still be nice guys.

      there's also 'fake scotsmen' that put on an air of niceness to manipulate women. they are not genuinely nice, hence 'fake scotsmen'.

      In this thread, I focus on the 'true scotsmen' that are genuinely nice guys AND attractive/interesting guys. that's because people assume these kind of scotsmen don't exist.

    • Anonymous

      When you say that guys, who are nice yet are also closet mysoginists, are not true nice guys, you are falling in the no true scotsman fallacy.

      Look, I agree, some nice guys are pretty decent fellows, hell some of them might also do pretty well with women (well, I know one such guy). But some are also secretly huge mysoginistic douchebags, and yet some others fall somewhere in between. But all of them come across as nice, hence they are all nice guys.

    • the_rake

      'you are falling in the no true scotsman fallacy'

      The true scotsman fallacy would be if I said there's only one type of a. I already conceded that there could be other types of a, so I don't see how I made that fallacy. I did not even talk about misogyny in the take: that's another subject.

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  • Anonymous
    Don't worry nice guys women will want you when they are in their 30's.

    scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/.../...92719197_n.jpg
    • the_rake

      lucky nice guys, they get to wait until they are in their 30s and then maybe if they are lucky, they get all the worn out whores.

  • Anonymous
    I had no idea that there were "nice guy haters" out there except for what I thought would be women out there who hated us thinking that we just sucked and were not worthy of their time. Obviously I was wrong.
  • Anonymous
    Goodness, I had no idea there were "Nice guy haters"! I guess not everyone appreciates a kind soul these days?
    • the_rake

      haha well to be fair they are criticising the OTHER kind of 'nice guy'. I'm just pointing out some of the areas where the two overlap / share similarities and criticising this may mean that the genuine nice guy gets the stick unduly. not sure if this makes much sense :P

  • Anonymous
    A great take!
    Nice try but sadly I don't think people will understand this or maybe they don't want to understand this.
    • the_rake

      thanks. I realise people's opinions will not change overnight but I am pleased with this take because it conveys a poignant message but is also easy to understand without conveying too much information overload (because there is lots more I could say about this). so this is the kind of thing people should be tweeting, etc. if they want to spread the message: something that is short, concise and stirs the emotions.

  • Anonymous
    All nice guys are indeed ugly I know cause I'm nice
    • the_rake

      ' I know cause I'm nice '

      That's not a strong reference point. Some nice guys are ugly, some nice guys not so much. Try not to generalise because it helps no-one (yourself included).

    • Anonymous

      Its the truth. How many nice guys do you see that are good looking? Not average.

    • the_rake

      'niceness' -> 'giving pleasure or satisfaction; pleasant or attractive'

      there is no correlation (negative or positive) between attractiveness and simply 'being nice'. niceness is something you choose to be. you can choose to be well-mannered and amicable to be regardless of whether you look good or not. likewise, if you are ugly, you can also choose to be an arsehole: many (though not all) ugly guys get bitter and cynical about the way the world treats and do in fact become arseholes. generalisations is something you want to avoid for the most part. in fact, if there is one thing to take from my article it is this.

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