513 opinions shared on Guy's Behavior topic. There are 3 possible reasons I can think of:
1. They were never your friend. They just occupied the friend space in your life. Either because you put them there through your responses to their romantic advances or because they never found enough confidence to make those advance probably again due to the way you behave when interacting with them. There’s nothing wrong with the way you behave around them it’s just a unspoken subconscious miscommunication between the two of you. They wanted more but accepted that friendship is all they could get from you right now. So when someone new came to take their romantic attention away from you they stopped trying to get your attention as much because actual progress was being made with this new person. But you’ll only see it as a friend not reaching out to you as much.
2. The new girl feels uncomfortable with your relationship with him. She may not verbally say it. She may seem super cordial and nice around you but somewhere at some point in time he got the impression that his girlfriend doesn’t like the closeness between you two and he values his new relationship’s potential more than his relationship with you. Which on the surface sounds shitty but you have to remember that he’s not choosing her over you he’s choosing what she could be over you which is an entirely made up fantasy in his head which he’s hoping she can help make real. You’ll almost always lose to someone’s fantasies because fantasies are perfectly tailored to them. It could actually be a combo of this and reason 1 and usually is
3. He’s overly engrossed in his new relationship. Ask around, has he disappeared from all his friend groups or just you? If it’s all of his friends then chances are he’s just let his new relationship consume his life. Some people just do this. I personally don’t think it’s a good sign for a relationship but many people make their new relationship such a priority that they cease to maintain their other social ties. These people in my opinion usually end up feeling loneliness more than the average person because they have no close support network after a break up to keep them from feeling the full weight of loneliness. Which creates a perpetual cycle of overly investing super early in new relationships, ditching friends, and feeling so lonely post break up that it encourages them to cling harder to the next new relationship.
Im sure there are more reasons but these are the reasons I see to see most often.30 Reply
Most Helpful Opinions
+1 yignoring you completely ha? hmmm... maybe these guys were not seeing you as just a "friend".
what kind of a relationship did you have with these guys before they got their gf? were they interested in you, did they happen to say it or do you have any reasons to believe that there might have been an interest from their side?
Asking because the only reasonable argument that I can find would be: they liked you, they tried one way or another, realized it's not going anywhere , they still liked you nonetheless, they suffered inside, then eventually tried to move on. When they made the step and got a girlfriend, they shut you down because they did not feel comfortable having you around and maybe you were still on their mind.
Happened to notice that with girls that are all giddy and friendly around me. Most of times I can easily figure some want more, but I just act as friendly and make no steps if not interested. No leading on, no stupid games.
The moment they get a boyfriend, not only they stop communicating, but when I'm trying to keep up with them (because in all fairness they were great girls to be around and I appreciate every single one of them one way or another), they barely reply to messages, if they do, they reply with closed sentences (nothing to make the conversation going).
It's like they never knew you.
And it does hurt a bit isn't it to see that someone you got along with doesn't want to share life with you as a friend.30 Reply
Could be it feels weird for that person to be friends with you when he has a girlfriend. Could be the girlfriend is easily threatened by other girls or in some other way has made him not want to hang out with other girls. It could depend a lot on the nature of your friendship too - if you're a flirty person or you make dirty jokes together, etc.
Of course it could also be that the guy has had some interest in you before or feels like he has been flirty with you, and because of that doesn't want to engage when he's found someone.
It's hard to say without knowing the people involved.
Girlfriends being jealous/uncomfortable is a pretty common factor though, honestly.00 Reply
+1 yThats what happen when u get in a relationship its kinda normal and should be expected ( well i expect it) i remember one friend didn't talk to me for a whole year because her relationship and when we did speak i felt some way because it seem like now that her relationship was bumpy she could reach out to vent... i told her and she apologized but still i would never do that to my friend i would balance both because u gotta remember they was there before he/she was
But if u have a very clingy u dont need friends type of person in a relationship then trying balance both will be very difficult especially if they feels as thou u don't need nobody but them00 Reply
Well it’s often the case they stop talking to their guy friends as well but I think there are a number of reasons.
- just more busy, less time
- they can be respecting the boundaries of their new relationship
- one of the reasons they were friends with the girl to begin with was that they were interested in them as more than friends and they no longer have that interest
- some other unrelated random thing that happened
- they don’t want people to know much about their new relationship
Not saying these things are true for your case but I’m sure all of these things have happened00 Reply
Anonymous(30-35)+1 yMy guess would be that it's at the request of their new girlfriend. Either that or they don't wanna disrespect this girlfriend and willingly cut ties for a while until they get the girlfriend's approval. I went through a similar experience when my best guy friend started dating this girl and she felt insecure at the thought of the two of us hanging out alone even though our friendship is completely platonic. I ended up meeting the girl and we became really good friends afterwards so she stopped caring that her boyfriend and I hung out :) Just removing yourself as a "threat" helps a lot :)
10 Reply
+1 yRespect. I mean I wouldn't stay friends with a guy who had a girlfriend unless he was a childhood friend or really close friend. And even then I would have to become friends with her. I mean I'm not saying I would ignore the guy in the street but I certainly wouldn't hang out with him one on one anymore. So its really just respectful if the guy backs off from female friends and vice versa when taken. Or at least, if its a close friend, have them make friends with the girlfriend and only see them when she us there or in group situations from then on.
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+1 yUh, because their girlfriend is more important. When you don't someone then that person is your main focus. I wouldn't say they ignore their female friends but it's natural to be less to distant, male or female.
00 ReplyI think it boils down to how they saw you. Maybe they saw you as something that could never stay only friendly, but had to evolve to a romantic level for them to be interested. I have friends that are girls that that i can NEVER go romantic with. It just isn't there. I have friends that I always feel like I want to chase/evolve with, and I have friends where both are okey. It's hard to say, but my in the past, with some girls, I just lose interest if we can't evolve, while with others I'd rather just be friends and hang out. I've been friends with a girl where it was obvious that there were some level of attraction, but we both had a girlfriend/boyfriend. In the end it just got awkward and we just stopped being friends. Now we rarely speak. I dont know why, its just how it is.
20 Reply
+1 yThey don't necessarily ignore. They just have a big social expense the have to spend their social capital on. To complicate things, like myself, a lot of guys I personally know need time alone time.
A lot of women do that. It's not just a matter of female friends, but also female relatives. One of my sisters is married and has 4 kids with ages ranging from 14 to 4. I don't even expect her to swing by to hang out. If anything, I'd he doing her a favor if I come visit her and help them with the house and kids.
It's nothing personal. It's just a fact of life. It's similar to single folks getting upset with their married friends who have kids.20 Reply
+1 yTime is limited. It's hard to regularly meet everyone in your social circle. So it's inevitable that a guy will deprioritise seeing a platonic girl friend over one that he gets to see naked, have sex with, and enjoy fun, flirty vibes with one once he's in a relationship. Guys ditch their guy friends, family too over a girl etc so don't get butthurt over it, that's life.
Also consider he may have been wanting to date you but you weren't showing interest back or he was hanging out with you as social proofing to other girls that he is a high quality guy to date. So once he finds a girl to date, you have lost value to him.20 Reply1K opinions shared on Guy's Behavior topic. Well if it's any comfort to you, it had happen to me too, with at least 1-2 female friends, when they get someone, but there was some female friends who stop talking with for other reasons. There is three possible reasons for why your former male friends did that. One reason is that they was fake friends, and was friends with you only in hope of getting some. Second reason is that their girlfriend is overjealous, and she forced them to cut off their friendship with you. The third and most reasonable reason is that they simple don't have enough time for you any longer, and it's makes sense that they would spend most of their free time on their girlfriend instead of their female friend, a girlfriend is usually more important then a female friend, and you can't even call an 'bros before hoes' on that. :)
10 ReplyTwo major reasons.
1. Because the girlfriend is jealous, and she pushes the issue.
2. Because they were never really the girl's friend in the way she thought they were in the first place.
I don't mean to imply that all male / female friendships are insincere, and superficial, because I do not believe this to be the case. But some are.60 ReplyMost of the time, when you get a girlfriend, she will evaluate and go through your inventory of your friends who are female; and then express usually in indirect suggestive ways, like her opinion of them, and often it’s a negative opinion if she feels that girl is a threat to her. They often don’t even think there is a threat of cheating, but other threats she perceives, like an emotional connection or bond, that she may think exist between you, that she may be lacking, between her boyfriend, so she will then tell you “I think her clothes are tacky and saw her once eat with her mouth open and gossip about you”
You have to understand; girls are fucking complicated11 ReplyThere are a few possible reasons. Maybe your guy friend wanted more than friendship with you so he feels like he's cheating by being with you. Maybe his new lady is the jealous, controlling type (yeah, those come in female too) and she doesn't allow him to see you. Early in the relationship, a lot of people over-invest their time in a new love interest, ignoring family and friends all the same. If that's the case, he probably doesn't even realize he's doing it. If both relationships are normal and healthy, he'll eventually come around. In the end, if you really need to know his reasoning, if there is any, you'll have to ask him. Not sure you could bet on a straight answer though.
20 ReplyI don't know but it's stupid. Like y'all are friends I'll never get how a girlfriend/boyfriend changes that.
My male best friend and I have girlfriends and hang out because friends are a thing and if you're the type to drop them for a romantic relationship on a dime, you shouldn't be dating.30 Reply- 499 opinions shared on Guy's Behavior topic.
+1 yI'm not sure of the reasons in your case, but I had one situation where my new girlfriend was very jealous of a female friend I had. That friendship was purely platonic and always had been, but my new girlfriend was jealous of how close we were and also my friend was acting kind of weird like she was jealous of me having a girlfriend so I think that only made my girlfriend more suspicious.
I tried to find a way to manage to keep both relationships but in the end felt like I had to make a choice and I chose my girlfriend.
A few years later, things settled down and we were all able to be friends, but unfortunately it did significantly reduce the friendship I had from close friends to casual friends that rarely see each other.
Maybe something similar is happening in your case?00 Reply
+1 yIt goes both ways. It's cause the guys/girls have no backbone and they're the settlers in the relationship. I've had girlfriends end year long friendships just to date an abusive cheating boyfriend. One time, one girl was in the hole 20k and I'm like if you break up with him I'll wipe out your debt. No strings attached since she was a friend. She declined and after chatting casually her boyfriend went on her phone n said we can't talk anymore. She obliged and now is out a multimillionaire friend. She's dating someone new now but not worth my time even thinking about her. From updates though, I was told she owes 40k now.
00 ReplyThe girlfriend will always feel threatened to some degree, even if she doesn't admit it, and will try to keep her guy from communicating with his girl friends... in worst case scenario she is jealous and insecure... if the guys smart he'll steer clear of his girl friends... Because i'm sure he'd feel the same if she was wanting to hang out with her guy friends... so I think out of mutual respect you just don't kick it with your friends of the opposite sex when engaged in a relationship... maybe once in a while you could possible if you brought your partner with you
00 Reply
+1 yBecause they are trying to keep their girlfriend. yes ignoring other friends just because they are female is wrong. But let's face it a lot of women get jelious and tell their boyfriend's not to talk with other women but them ! One can still have a girlfriend/boyfriend and still keep talking with friends. Just keep in mind there's your partner and then then there's your friends. Ignoring friends is a good way to end or destroy a good friendship. So if your partner is the jelious type let them know that they don't need to be and you are not going to loose a friend because of jellious thoughts or feeling
10 Reply
+1 yBecause women are high maintenance, and men know that, because we want men to prove their worth to us before we do the do..
Nobody of the opposite sex should be considered a friend. It sounds harsh, but you're not gonna make many friends, and you're gonna break your heart if you make friends with a potential friend +140 ReplyUsually it’s the girlfriend. They’re possessive and don’t want them around other girls.
That being said there are some girls my husband has cut out since dating me because they would a) pretend I didn’t exist when being a guest in our home b) obviously flirt with my husband in front of me c) openly treat me like crap because they were jealous because he refused to date them d) their kids are terrors.30 ReplyMost likely he’s doing it out of respect for his current girlfriend also I’m sure in the beginning of the relationship he’s more so infatuated with her and wants to give her more of his time when he three and everything out with other girls that are his friends and not you specifically it’s probably because he actually has more feelings for you than he should if he’s in a relationship now.
30 Reply
+1 yOne reason is because their girlfriend objects , and the guy doesn't want to jeopardize his relationship
I used to be friends with this one guy, and his girlfriend was jealous of our friendship. It was a platonic relationship. Always was. But his girlfriend felt threatened and insecure about our friendship. So our friendship ended. I was okay about it coz I wouldn't want to come between a guy and his girlfriend. I'd put my relationship with my boyfriend first too30 Reply558 opinions shared on Guy's Behavior topic. I lol'd at this question. Because they're not "friends" with those females. They want to get into their pants =P If they have a new girlfriend then they don't need to be friends with those other girls lol. They have achieved their goal.
Duhhhhhhh!!!20 Reply- 2.1K opinions shared on Guy's Behavior topic.
+1 yIt could be that they dont want their girlfriend to get jealous or it could be thAt they were attracted to you and put in the friend zone so when they got their own girlfriend, the appeal of hanging with you changed.
70 Reply Because humans are pretty much incapable of having just being friends with the opposite sex. We are built to react to attraction and even if your able to ignore temptation and keep a friendly healthy relation with your friends your partner will more than likely become a jealous mess.
20 Reply
+1 yGirls don't trust the other women and see them as rivals.
I wouldn't do this now, but when I was 20, my new girlfriend insisted that I get rid of all my female friends (and she had other guys interested in her, so I knew it was her way or the highway on this topic). She wanted my attention fully focused in her.10 Reply
+1 yBecause when you’re in a relationship you’re gonna be focused on your girlfriend/boyfriend.
I know I’m just as guilty as the next guy who kinda of pays more attention to their girlfriend and doesn’t talk to their female friends as much but I still try to communicate with them.
However, it goes both ways but it happens when you’re in a relationship, your focus shifts and you’re trying to balance both your relationship and your friendships but no one is perfect at that.12 Reply- +1 y
Yeah true
Anonymous(30-35)+1 yYeah some people do that both guys and gurls and usally it’s not just ignoring the opposite gender friend they usually ignore all their friends once they get in a relationship which is really stupid and dumb. If you break up with your bf/gf what are you gonna do if you pushed all your friends away. You’ll be hurt twice as much. And for people saying their girlfriend gets jealous of you talking to the opposite gender just as friends and has no proof that you’re cheating then why would you wanna date someone who’s jealous/insecure? That’s not a healthy relationship you’re supposed to be in one to be happy not argue all the time and stuff. If I had a boyfriend I would trust him to do whatever and I won’t be jealous or insecure, if he wants to cheat go ahed don’t let the door hit u on the way out.
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Anonymous(30-35)+1 yBecause they were looking for a girlfriend and now they have one, so the potential for relationships with other girls isn't so necessary. Focus shifts away from romantic potential. There's also girlfriend time that has to be accounted for and the limited amount of time left over for friends needs to go to people they really like.
Out of necessity, many friendships guys form with girls is rooted in finding a romantic relationship. So when a romantic relationship is found the effort that goes into other relationships in his life goes down. It's not like they weren't or aren't interested in you but there's not much of a reason to continue to invest in other girls so much.00 Reply
+1 yBecause the guy was only your friend in hopes of fking you. It was a fake friendship. Welcome to the life of a guy.
Now that he has one.. he no longer has you to deny him and constantly make him depressed63 Reply- +1 y
Some cases this maybe true. Actually most cases this is true
- +1 y
A guy can be sexually and/or romantically attracted to a female friend and also value her friendship. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. Yes, it can develop into a complicated situation if one or both people in the friendship are not able to be honest about their feelings or they are not “available”. But to suggest that sex is the ONLY goal of man who befriends a woman is generally false.
+1 yYour best bet is to have a chat with each of them.
Asking us to speculate is not the same as actually finding out from the source.
Have a friendly, non-threatening approach such as sharing a coffee break or lunch. Give it a shot, who knows, you might re-establish the contact!00 Reply
+1 yI think the guys here don´t get that not all girlfriends are bitches who always have the urge to control their boyfriend and cut everyone else out their lives to get their full attention. Secondly, their gf´s are not around them 24/7, and the guys are still ignoring their female friends. This is what I´m experiencing with my longest guy friend right now since he got a girlfriend and it´s really upsetting.
00 Replysome women think men want to sleep with every woman they know... i would put my money on that being the reason... there are some other possibilities though... could be he has less time, or that he is interested in you (and wants to behave)... that last option i have only really seen happen a handful of times (very unlikely)...
00 Reply
+1 yThere could be many reasons:
1. He has a girl friend or married and doesn't want to jeopardize that relationship. Women can be very insecure about other girls liking their guys.
2. He may feel that being nice to you may send the wrong message, like he does like you but is unsure etc
3. He doesn't want attention from you. He maybe embarrassed by the attention because he maybe being teased by his colleagues/friends etc.00 Reply
+1 yprobably so as to not make their girlfriend insecure or they might just want that girl's company more than others. it could be the girlfriend telling him not to if not either of the first two that are willing while being told not to by her, no shit, would not be entirely
00 Reply
+1 yI believe that if a couple is dating there should be a certain level of trust between that couple. Both party's should be responsible enough to have friends of the opposite sex. After all what are you going to do when your married? Eventually you will be in contact with the opposite sex and you may not be able to just ignore them. Especially if its on a job site.
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+1 yUsually it is for the insecure girlfriend. Whilo gets jealous of any female friend.
My girlfriend is secure enough that she trusts me cause we met in the same hugging church group. So she is secure seeing me talk and hug other girls while most women are very insecure and jealous.00 ReplyIt is kind of the respectful thing to do, really.
Especially if their attitude towards you wasn't 100% platonic.
And, even if it was, there is still your attitude to be considered.
If there is any doubt about the nature of your friendship, on either side, it is really the safest option to end it.10 Reply
+1 ySometimes people do this out of respect for their girlfriend. It's easy to mistaken things for "cheating" when they aren't or even geberal jealousy. Personally I don't care if my boy has girls as friends but I'm just not gonna let him hang with them without me there because we all know how SOME girls like to chase guys with girlfriends.
00 Reply- 604 opinions shared on Guy's Behavior topic.
+1 yI think it's normal within the first few months if you're so infatuated that you only want to spend every free minute with that special person. But if it continues, he doesn't really value your friendship enough that you should care when he's single again and contacting you.
00 Reply I do the same. Except I don't totally ignore, I just reply short because I basically have no interest. This is towards someone I know but in general I ignore. I don't know why but it's like my full interest is going to the one I date and I'm just disinterested in others. I also don't want to give any wrong thoughts to others (that they think I like them) just because I'm a pretty happy gentle person. Also, of course, out of respect.
Guys might have the same reason.00 Reply
+1 ywell one they don't want to make their girlfriend jealous and 2, sorry to break it to you if you are naive of this, but you were probably just being kept around for the fact that you have a vagina and tits and now that he's got a vagina and tits to call his own he doesn't care about you anymore
10 Reply
+1 yI didn't like a girl because she was trying to get my ex-bf to cheat and she did get my ex-bf to cheat on me. I was one breaking up with him. Some boys or girl can get jealous of the relationship. It did happen to me twice. i got cheated on twice. by the way i met my new boyfriend from facebook.
00 ReplyMy opinion is that must be a learned behaviour pattern from primary teachers (parents etc) and experience.
Some guys friendships are romances in waiting.
You pissed him off and didn't know.
He thought you fancied him so he's being nice to you by keeping away.
Maybe all, doubtlessly more.
Great question, thanks.
Ask him.
He will probably tell you.10 ReplyIt's totally common.
I had a friend who started to not see any girl from our group and then didn't meet with the guys neither. The girlfriend kept him away from everybody.
Also being honest I don't believe much in guys friend with girls, at some point there will be attraction.
And in my case (I'm single), if my girlfriend tells me to not see X girl, okay fine I don't care. I prefer her over random friend10 Reply
+1 yCause the girlfriend is either jealous or he's respecting their relationship and wants to cut off all female friends and focus on his girlfriend.
70 Reply
+1 yThey'd probably never seen you as a friend but more as an potential girlfriend. Now they do not "need" you anymore.
70 Reply
+1 yI think most of the time they reduce attention because most of the attention is given to new girlfriend. Completely ignoring or cutting off may mean he had some feelings for you.
40 ReplyCause more often than not the girlfriends maybe insecure or they just mind them talking to other girls.
But specifically you?
Mmm... are you the kind who could cause trouble between a couple?
Could be good or bad.
As in are u too attractive and a fun person compared to other girls... Cz then they might ask them to stay away specifically from you.
Or bad... lol
No offence but that seems like the explanation.00 Reply
+1 yPersonally I am very busy throughout the weekdays and I need to make plans with my girlfriend on Saturday evening if I want to see her once weekly. Seeing how I have a lot of work to do in the weekend I usually don't see much time left to make other plans, and my girlfriend is usually my priority then as not seeing her for two weeks would be too much
00 Reply- 4K opinions shared on Guy's Behavior topic.
+1 yBecause for one they might be trying to not send the wrong message to their girl. And number two, girls need to understand that when a straight guy is friends with a girl HE will never see you as just a “friend” especially if he was put in the friend zone
116 Reply- +1 y
Did you ever like these said women?
- +1 y
😂😂😂 that's so true. my friend is like now married. so we don't talk as often. but one day he's like I miss you friend send a pic
- +1 y
So I did of me at a concert. he said damn u look so good. why didn't we ever date. i liked you 😑😑
- +1 y
Every male friend I have is attracted to me.
- +1 y
You see he wanted to argue with an older wiser man... smh shame
- +1 y
- +1 y
Or have sex with me.
- +1 y
No I'm not trying too 😂. it's just what's happened to me
- +1 y
Tight 😂
- +1 y
Just post a question asking. most guys are friends with girls they're attracted to
+1 yWhen I'm attracted to one of my female friends and I have a girlfriend, I quit talking to my friend. Reason for that is... girls can pick up on that. It creates unnecessary drama between me and the girlfriend. I can only say this, because I've been in that position quite a few times.
20 ReplyOh no, it's just his female friends, but also his male ones. When people get into a relationship, sometimes they feel they need to drop everything for that person or else they MIGHT NEVER GET LAID AGAIN, which isn't true.
Why do you think the bro code exists? It's a way for guys to keep their friends and not get controlled by the allure of a new relationship.00 ReplyThis is one of those that most women have double standards about. Women can have male "froends" that are just plutonic froends, but if a guy has female "friends" then they are sleeping with them even though they are not. And o know that from experience all 3 of my wives wre that way.
00 ReplyEveryone already said it, girlfriends feel insecure about their man being friends with other females, but I understand that. So many guys will try and get in another girls pants, and fucks things up for others who can have platonic relationships with the opposite sex
10 Reply- 790 opinions shared on Guy's Behavior topic.
+1 yWomen do it too... so I don't think you can just put this on men...
70 Reply Guys usually will reduce time with their friends when they have a girlfriend it doesn't matter if you're a girl.
70 ReplyCause it's not them. It's the girlfriend. Basically taking control of who they can and cannot talk to.
70 Reply
Anonymous(36-45)+1 yUsually one of 2 reasons...
#1 it's a new unbelievable, meaningful attraction and all you want to do is spend time with her.
#2 she's jealous type, doesn't want you to talk to other girls, but she is so hot and sex is so good... well... your friends that are girls get put by the wayside.
Don't worry, in case #1, the newness wears off, and things get back to normal. If your like best friends, you will probably start to be invited to stuff that they do together.
Case #2, your all good, that won't last long!00 Reply
Anonymous(45 Plus)+1 yHa, you naive people still think there is such a thing as female friends? the fact that they ignore your ass when they have a girlfriend should be a clue. Stop fooling yourself...
I've had women tell me they see me as a brother, as a friend... then they see me after my workout and all my muscles are popping out... suddenly I'm hot and sexy. No such thing as female friends... very few exceptions, but even with that, one party usually sees the other as more.00 Reply
Anonymous(25-29)+1 yIt's more a stigma process of where guys and both girls will avoid friends of the other gender when they are in a relationship out of respect - I think it's silly though and no reason for them to stop being friends. Platonic friends are normal of the opposite gender and I would encourage it greatly unless they are doing anything they shouldn't.
00 ReplySimply the girlfriends most likely tell the guy to stop talking to any other girls. My sisters boyfriend does this to her, well he did a while ago and he made her block every boy on her Instagram and snapchat and he wouldn’t let her text any guys.
20 Reply
+1 yBecause their girlfriend is insecure and she thinks if her boyfriend has female friends that he will leave his girlfriend and be with them. I had a guy friend that would do that and honestly, I do not want him in that way.
30 Reply1.4K opinions shared on Guy's Behavior topic. If you need emotional support: ain’t nobody got the time to support two women. And his girlfriend is there for him whenever he needs her while you split your time up among 50 male friends. It’s simple math.
10 ReplyIt honestly has nothing to do with you.. some guys just feel like it might make their girl uncomfortable so they avoid it.
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