I think the only way Ukraine can win is if we send them our military, ofc not all but around 10k US military
quite clearly the Ukraine army are very very bad and it's showing
Do you think this is bad idea?
No! I heard on the news yesterday that an American volunteer was killed in Ukraine. One is too damn many
Did they help us at all when we exited Afghanistan and our people were being killed and some are still there?
WTF has Ukraine ever done for the United States?
They get billions of dollars, top notch military equipment, and anything else their little hearts desire from America.
Damnit, we draw the line in the sand when Ukraine wants to take our soldiers to fight THEIR fight.
We just don't have a dog in this fight. We want to keep our people, thank you very much.
Over our dead bodies! We already spent enough money on them. It is their war, not ours. We need to look after our own. We have lost enough lives in other's wars. Give the illegals citizenship if they will volunteer to go fight. Let them earn their freedom like we did in 1776.
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Leaving aside the probability that such a move could easily lead to miscalculation - and thus an escalation to a thermonuclear exchange - the reason that the USA should NOT send troops is that American interests in Ukraine does not merit such action. Please note, this is not to say that the USA has no strategic interests in Ukraine, but rather such interests are secondary and derivative.
It being best to start by recalling that through most of American history, Ukraine was part of Imperial Russia and from 1920 to 1991 the Soviet Union. This having no noticeable or deleterious impact on the American global strategic position. This then making the deployment of troops to Ukraine, with its concomitant risk of war, and likely nuclear war at that, disproportionate.
Ukraine's current significance to the USA is rather based on its impact on several NATO allies. This especially true of Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Romania and to a lesser extent Hungary. The loss of Ukraine to Russia, absent American security assurances to those aforementioned states, would undermine their strategic position and likely result in the collapse of NATO.
Please also note that the dispute over Ukraine has already, in any case, divided NATO. Britain has been aggressive about sending weapons and diplomatic support to Ukraine. By contrast, Germany is seeking to develop its economic and trade ties with Russia, while using NATO security assurances to protect its own security interests. France, (with some sotto voce help from Italy) in all this, has been quietly seeking to entangle Russia more deeply in Europe, thereby making it a counterweight to German influence in the EU.
Put simply, there is a tangle of conflicting interests not just between NATO and Russia, but within NATO. For the United States to step in with a direct military intervention would likely please Poland, the Baltic States, Romania and the UK, but it would shatter German ties with NATO. This then effectively render NATO "null and void" as it is the fastest strategic access point to eastern Europe, including Russia.
Further, any confrontation between the United States and Russia plays out to the strategic advantage of the People's Republic of China. If the Americans and Russians are engaged in a conflict, (again, assuming that it does not go nuclear in which events all bets are off), China is left a free hand toward Taiwan and the South China Sea, This also meaning, in effect, that the USA would be abandoning Japan, South Korea, Australia, New Zealand and Thailand.
Put simply, the United States cannot walk away from Ukraine, but its interests require that it avoid war. If Russia invades Ukraine, there is little beyond diplomatic and economic sanctions that the United States can offer. A direct military conflict between the USA and Russia would split NATO, to the latter's advantage, and give China a free hand.
This is a game of three dimensional chess and not simply a test of wills. The historic interests of the major European powers are at play and in this case American direct interests are secondary. For the USA, this is about reassuring NATO's eastern flank, balancing the interests of NATO's other major members - the UK, France, Germany and Italy - in order to keep the alliance whole, and to avoid driving Russia and China closer together.
This is not a mere contest of muscle. Suffice to add that it would be profoundly dangerous to see it in such simplistic terms.
There's a bigger game going on. The US and Russia can't fight directly but the Ukraine are doing a pretty good job on their own. The US Is arming an ally finally that wants to fight unlike the ARVN in Vietnam, National Afghan army, Syrian rebels etc.
The main strategy for the US is not fof peace or for Ukraine but for Russia to bleed and to justify the most massive spending on the US military since the 1980s, the US military is going through a massive overhaul of all weapons and equipment, nearly everything built before the cold war is getting replaced with new stuff so the army's m16/m4 with its 5.56mm rounds are getting replaced with the M7 and its 6.8mm rounds that may be Armour piercing and plastic cased to save weight, they are replacing saws with light machine gun versions of this. The Marines are replacing their M16/M4, SAWs, designated marksman rifle with the M27. The Army and Marines will be getting new Smart scopes with every rifle.
All Humvees are getting replaced with the L-ATV. The f16& f18 and marine harriers are getting replaced with the F35. The F15 will be replaced either with new build and updated versions of the F15 to complement the f22 or a brand new Stealth fighter superior to the F22.
The current M1 Abrahams is going to be replaced or updated with more fuel efficient engines, better sensors, better armor, better anti tank defences, better sensors etc.
The Stryker looks set to replace the Bradley.
Black hawk helicopters are being replaced by either the Bell V-280 Valor or Sikorsky–Boeing SB-1 Defiant, maybe both. The Marines have already replaced their old helicopters with the V22 osprey.
Every combat vechile will soon be fitted with CROWS turrets which can mount any calibre or type of machine gun and the machine gunner can sit unexposed safely in the vechile, it can fire further and more accurately than a sniper rifle fully automatic, has motion sensors, telescopic view, thermal imaging, night vision, laser range finding, computer assisted and possibly completely autonomous. Can mount grenade launchers, flamethrowers, rocket launchers and who knows what else.
The US navy will likely get new ships and new weapons systems. New anti tank and anti Air missle, new anti Air missles.
That's before we even get into drones.
Trump said something very telling back when he was president which illustrates another part of us policy and intrests in Europe and Ukraine and that is that countries like Germany should be spending more on their military and should stop buying Russian oil& Gas. That isn't trump making that policy or Biden but very clever men behind the scenes. It makes sense. Russia spends its oil/gas profits on its military. Its why Russia propped up the Assad regime in Syria because Assad declined to allow a pipeline through Syria connecting Oman with Europe which would compete with Russian oil/gas and reduce Russian oil/gas revenue. When franking started during the Obama administration this drastically cut into Russian oil/gas profits.
Oh dear god... dude... we already sent "advisors". We've been escalating this war now... along with our NATO allies, of which Poland has sent a bunch of troops to fight and I've heard many are dead, not confirmed. So yea, we are there.
No, bad idea... we don't send troops. I don't want you, my neighbor, my kid, or anyone elses kid going into an unnecessary hell hole to die a fiery death. For that matter, I don't want Ukranians dying their either... or Russians.
I want my government leader to get off his $ss and address the underlying issues that are causing this conflict before it turns into drone wars or worse... hypersonic hydrogen bombs 5 minutes away from their targets.
That isn't going to happen, but it's what I want. If you fail to elect another leader next time, then all bets are off the table, prepare to die. Before then, we may die anyways if someone snaps or makes a mistake.
That's life... F ups happen don't they?
You are not going to end this war by shooting anything or anyone. It's not winnable by either side. Maybe Russia can win short term, but they can't hold that line indefinitely. Ukraine can't win nor hold it either... it's a frickin line in the trees as the border... not defendable long term. They can't beat russia, just tire them out. And Russia doesn't see losing as an option... losing back to what? It's their survival at stake, Putin's survival.
We're F'd buddy! The hell hole we appear to have started in 2014, fueled by culture wars, that could suck so many of your friends into the firey pit is before us. Choose wisely.
Note: opinions expressed are my own, not everyone agrees, GAG is not responsible.
I think it's a horrible idea.
The best case scenario for Ukraine is simply to deny Russia a win; Ukraine "winning" (i. e. strategically defeating Russia, and forcing their surrender) was never an option. When Russia has not won at a certain point they will discover the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
However, while American military forces would be more potent than Ukraine's, throwing 10,000 soldiers at them would be worthless. This will cause Russia to drastically broaden the war, attacking American targets around the world, and declaring outright war on the US (which may lead to nuclear conflict). I can't state how utterly stupid it would be to send US military in; this is an overt declaration of war on a major power for a country that DOESN'T matter.
Besides, 10,000 soldiers will not be enough to defeat the fielded (and soon to be fielded) Russian forces, which may receive an additional 500,000 reinforcements. A US led force of at least 100,000 would be needed, in conjunction with air/ sea forces to defeat the Russian Army decisively. And even if/ when we did that, the war wouldn't end there. Do you imagine Russia would surrender in humiliation, and just turtle up? Absolutely not- history will tell you that's not how Russia acts. They'd fully mobilize their military and throw hail marys (e. g. hypersonic missiles) until they could eek out some sort of honorable end to the conflict (which would leave thousands of dead Americans, and likely hundreds of thousand dead Ukrainians, Russians- including civilians, and Europeans, even if we avoided nuclear war).
No- this war has nothing to do with us. Ukraine had time after being rejected from NATO to form its own defensive alliance with other countries; they chose not to. And they still chose not to after Russia broke their agreement, invaded the country, and stole Crimea.
It's also pretty obvious that the Ukrainian military is quite good, since anything less would've been overrun by the Russians by now; it's been almost a year.
But what's going to happen is that eventually, Ukraine will fall- Russia may not occupy the whole country, but they'll take most of it. Then the partisan campaigns will begin. Putin will decry them as "terrorists", and push down on the Ukrainians still further, which will just fuel the resistance. Eventually, the costs of occupation will be deemed too high, and they'll withdraw- pretty much the same playbook the Afghans used half a century ago.
Sending in the US military would just provoke World War 3; sitting back and letting the inevitable happen will instead send the message that a strong network of alliances is needed to prevent war, setting up the world for a repeat of World War 1. Yay!
You clearly don't understand this at all so let me explain it to you:
This is a fucking proxy war between the US and Russia which was started by the US.
You have no interest in 'winning' it because that would mean that it was over and that is in direct conflict with your objective, to weaken Russia through a sustained conflict and to make money from selling the Ukraine weapons.
Guess what?
The same people who have been 'educating' you until now, through your television are the same people who started the war, so they are not a reliable source of information.
Note that this will continue regardless of which of your 2 parties you elect because they the same fucking thing, you do not live in a democracy you live in a facist dictatorship.
Welcome to your first day on Earth.
No, and I can pretty much guarantee wherever you're getting your news from is just full on propaganda for one side or the other.
Nobody really cares about Ukraine; what the western powers care about is dragging the conflict out as much as possible in order to drain and humiliate Russia on the world stage, even if they ultimately win or force a favorable cease-fire. It's also a convenient way to move huge chunks of money and material as "aid" and pocket it elsewhere, which the US and UK in particular have taken full advantage of.
no, we have spent enough money there and we definitely should not get any of our kids killed over there for nothing. This tthing is a black hole and America keeps pouring money in it. There is no way Ukraine comes out a winner here, the question is how much Russia and the US are willing to spend.
As soon as the US stops the money train Semensky will surrender the next day.
Let the European nations do something for once instead of sitting on their hands and looking for us to spill our blood and foot the bill.
Did they really help much in the War on Terror? Nah. Pretty minimal effort on their part.
Let them live with Putin as he gobbles up everything in his path while they act like they don’t have the funds or man power to do anything.
Sick of us having to spill our blood and bankroll everything while Europe is too busy Islamifying itself, promoting feminazis, and prostituting itself with the Woke garbage it jointly loves with America.
Lol 10 thousand US troops? Would do the job you think? The Ukrainians are putting up a good fight however they can’t win this war on their own. And I think NATO are getting sucked into this war. Putin is going to send in I think 500 thousand troops and start another front line. Ukraine won’t win I’m afraid.
end of ww2 the British and Americans and other countries who were fighting the Germans, they were killed Germans in Germany. This war in Ukraine, they won’t be killing Russians in Russia while they are in Russia. They just push them back to the border.
Too late for that. Why get any more American men killed. The stupid son of a bitch should never have allowed Putin to invade in the first place. Trump would have made that clear to the bald headed bastard.
Yes that´s the start of WWIII. The Ukraine can get weapons but I think it´s bad to send in troops but because that would say that the US enters the war. Because that would probably allow China ally with Russia and it would lead to more conflicts not less.
no! dont get me wrong russia is like a big bully and watching them get their ass beat by ukraine is really funny... but the US has no real dog in the fight and i dont see a benefit quite frankly. send them all the javelins and tanks you want but lets not put boots on the ground atm.
u I guarantee you that we already have Green Berets there.
How about we just send all the soy boys from ANTIFA that flew a Ukraine flag on Twitter. Equip them with tofu and bb guns. Then we can stop hearing fagots asking us to help the Nazis in Ukraine.
Fuck no. Send Biden, send his son. It’s their (Biden) war, not ours. I spent 10 years in the military thinking I was fighting for our freedom only to realize we were protecting the investments of those rich, old fucks who run the US. Fuck them. I don’t want to sound like an asshole but people need to step up to protect their own countries. Not our job.
why would they send valuable us military personell, when they can just rent old weapons to ukraine and make the EU pay for it? that's like hitting 2 birds with one stone. keep eu weak and fuck russia up. that's exactly what they are doing. can't help but respect usa for that but also it is quite evil.
It is a very precarious situation. Send them and it is basically WW3. Putin is a complete nut case. He will escelate it to nuclear war for sure if the U. S send actual troops.
What we need is for the EU to get those pusillanimous frogs and ze Germans to be the ones to help Ukraine secure their border. Because once Putin gains the ground he wants, he isn't stopping there. He's creating a strategic base to attack further west. Anyone can see it. He wants the whole Soviet Union back.
The American military exists to protect America, not Ukraine. Your desire to provide financial support to Ukraine is understandable, but it is beyond stupid to wish your soldiers to die for Ukraine.
No. Let the EU nations send their troops. It's their backyard and they hate the U. S. (especially when we get involved).
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