When a man invites a girl for a dinner date, is he obligated to pay or should the bill be split if she chooses the place they eat?

[Kelley1]

He asked for a dinner date. She suggested the most expensive restaurant. Then her friend showed up, and the girls ordered the most expensive wine and menu items. She also ordered a take-home dinner so her brother could enjoy crabs. She spent the evening talking to her friend and ignored him. He excused himself to go to the restroom, paid for what he ordered, and left, leaving the girls to pay for a $600 bill. When she called, he hung-up and blocked her number.

[Screenwriter]

He was right to do what he did.

It was a date between them. Her inviting a friend showed she wasn't serious about it BEING a date, and that she was using him.

AND she ordered a take-home meal for someone who wasn't there? Unbelievable!

But BEFORE such dates, it doesn't matter WHO proposes the date. That has nothing to do with who pays. If you DO NOT KNOW A PERSON or their BUDGET, ask, "Who do you expect to pay for this date? What's your budget? Is it OK if we split costs?"

Another way to control costs is to have coffee dates, or breakfast or lunch dates. All are inexpensive and each person can pay for themselves. "The man pays" is old school stuff. If a woman is working, she can pay for herself.

I can't believe I have to SAY this, but NO ONE ELSE SHOWS UP FOR A DATE BETWEEN TWO PEOPLE. If anyone EVER does this for a date with you, get up and state the "date" is over and so is their "dating." This isn't a normal person. Man OR woman.

AND the only person who pays for a date's take-home meal for her brother is the person ORDERING the take-home meal. This woman was a horror show.

I'm proud he paid his own bill and left. What an awful date. But a great story to tell.

[Apple1996]

Men should be paying 100% of the time. The thing is that men also should be dating women within their price range. Don't date a woman who obviously expects to go to high end restaurants if you can't afford it. There's plenty of women out in this world who are fine with a cheap ice cream or coffee date if your broke.

[SteveSmith1985]

Why should men pay 100% of the time? Why should any woman expect to go to a high end restaurant. She seems to think she deserves more than other women. I am going to hope you didn't read the question description here. If you think this guy should pay... you're really out-there. This is over-the-top unacceptable behavior on her part (in this scenario). It's indefensible.

[Apple1996]

@SteveSmith1985 men have to prove they are generous and not full of greed. Going on a first date especially is for getting to know someone. If a man pays or doesn't pay.. it tells me a lot about his personality and his value system

[SteveSmith1985]

Why do men have to prove anything?

[Apple1996]

@SteveSmith1985 if a man chooses to go out with a Kardashian type he should understand it's very likely she'll expect a high end restaurant. That's just what it is. Those class of girls expect that. If he can't afford them then date some girl who is fine with a cheaper restaurant

[Apple1996]

@SteveSmith1985 they have ti prove they are worthy of dating/a relationship. Women do to but just in different ways

[SteveSmith1985]

Ok then I can agree with that. But I would say the Kardashian types aren't worth even considering. It's more the general idea that men have something to prove. Or that their greed or generosity is measured in how much he spends on a woman. But yes, if you're talking about horrible stuck-up women who think they're special, then I can agree that it's stupid to ask them out and take them for a coffee. I don't know why anyone would ask a girl like that out in the first place. Girls like that are not representative of "women" more broadly. They're a small minority.

[Apple1996]

@SteveSmith1985 some men just go after those rich type of women because they look pretty but then can't afford them

[SteveSmith1985]

ehh, I agree that this is the reality. I just think those stuck up bitches should not have the expectation in the first place. But this is talking about 5% of guys going for the 5% of girls like that.

But lets be clear. The expectation is wrong. No woman has the right to expect a high end restaurant. That's the problem here. Not that some guy doesn't spend according to their expectation. Who the hell do they think they are? They're not worth more. Why do they think they have the right to expect more?

If you think men prove their worthy of dating/relationship with money? It's no surprise we don't see eye-to-eye. Can I ask, how women are to prove their worth? (I'm curious now)

[Kelley1]

@SteveSmith1985 Men may pay a lot to go on a date with her because she is famous and wealthy. Otherwise, compared to her 20-year-old clone, men would not give that middle-aged woman a second glance.

[SteveSmith1985]

@Kelley1

So, a small minority of pathetic guys would pay a lot to go on a date with her. Most guys wouldn't. Disagree with your view of a woman at 20 vs. middle aged. If that were true, then what a sad world.

Men paying for 'beautiful'girls to spend time with them and hopefully have sex with them... until they're middle aged and nobody wants to buy them anymore. That's just not how most people work. I'm not saying there aren't men and women out there who do. Most people don't though. The entire premise is bleak. I don't live in a world where that's the nature of a relationship. That transactional approach is an awful way to look at relationships.

[Kelley1]

@SteveSmith1985 Most men would if they could. They don't because young women will not give much older men the time of day. The book "Dataclysm" shows men of all ages are attracted to women in their 20s


How typical that, since they can't have us, older men claim they don't want us with all kinds of excuses, attempting to dispute evolutionary biology.

[SteveSmith1985]

Oh I'm not arguing that men aren't attracted to women in their 20's. I'm objecting to the notion that nobody is interested in the same woman once she become "middle aged." It also depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking for sex, sure younger girls are great. But most 40 year old's aren't looking to date a 20 year old for anything substantial.

[SteveSmith1985]

@Kelley1 (sorry, forgot to tag you on the last one)

[Kelley1]

@SteveSmith1985 Biologically, men are attracted to youth and fertility (typically correlated to a small waist to hip ratio). That is because men who were attracted to youth and fertility produced more descendants and were the winners in the evolutionary race. Of course, older women have great value as mothers, grandmothers, and teachers. However, their sexual market value is not very high. That is because men who want to start families and have children prefer younger women. However, after having children, men need to wives.

[SteveSmith1985]

Well, I am aware of how biology and evolution works. That's why I'm quite willing to agree that all men would fuck a 20 year old. I also understand how socially, women have traditionally been relegated to the role of nurturing non-sexual 'mothers and grandmothers.'

However, things are not the same as they once were for women. Women work. Women vote. Birth control is cheap and available. There are lots of middle aged women (the single ones especially) who do not get type-cast into a non-sexual role. I believe I'm in a better position to judge the sexual market value of women my own age. Your view is just softened manosphere talking points. You assume that women after childbearing have low sexual market value. That's just not true. That's some old school patriarchal social roles, that don't exist today (the idea that a 40 year old woman is a non-sexual spinster if she's not already a mother).

Behind this is the assumption that men only value women for childbearing. That sex and kids is all men want women for. It's sad if that's your worldview.

[SteveSmith1985]

@Kelley1 (forgot... again)

[Kelley1]

@SteveSmith1985 Re: "Behind this is the assumption that men only value women for childbearing. That sex and kids is all men want women for. It's sad if that's your worldview. :

I already stated, "Of course, older women have great value as mothers, grandmothers, and teachers." However, men who choose older women as sexual partners are going to lose the evolutionary race to produce the most descendants to men who choose younger women as sexual partners, and it is not even close.

[OlderAndWiser]

I am married now, but when I was dating. . . I would ask a girl for a date, and I would expect to pay for everything. I can easily afford that, it is what is expected by my generation, and we never have arguments about this subject. I would expect a girl to show up alone, and I would expect to have her undivided attention during the date.

In the case you described, when she showed up with a friend, he should have said, "Oh, I had the mistaken impression that this was a date." Then, when the waiter or waitress arrived to take orders, he should have said, "This isn't a date so please do separate checks." That would have solved the problem. Then, when he is ignored, he gets up, pays his check, and leaves, and there are no surprises. And I would have blocked her number as I was leaving the restaurant.

[Kelley1]

That would have been better.

[JesseP1nk]

Thats a W for him. He asked her out and she took her friend too? He did not ask her friend out either. And then disrespect him by not talk to him at all? Why go to a date with someone if you gonna ignore them.

[Finchie40]

He was wise to do that , it was disrespectful of her to invite her friend and ignore him and disrespectful that she was ordering all this expensive food and wine assuming he is going to pay for everything. If a girl did that to me after I asked her on a date , My ass would be disappearing as well. I have encountered some gold diggers in my lifetime that were just after my money and I became a magician and disappeared because that is clearly disrespectful , and clearly shows she is a gold digger whore and user.

[SteveSmith1985]

Sounds like a smart guy. This is a pretty over-the-top date. I hope this isn't pulled from your life.

In this case though, that guy did exactly what I would do (except I wouldn't be quiet about leaving after paying my share of the bill).

What a nightmare date. What a nightmare woman.

[nawtee_me]

Going out to eat at a five star on a corner deli budget. I think if a guy ask out a girl for a dinner date then he should be prepared to pay for the whole date and not just the meal. However if he suggest some nice place and she want to try this new place everyone is talking about instead then she should at least offer to pay her own.
A gentleman would not let her and be glad to take her where she wants to go. Although if she does not at least offer to pay for herself then she shows herself not to be a lady and possibly not a good partner either.

[IslaTheWitch]

I always pay for myself... it makes the situation clear and no expectations can be created...

but the first dates for sure should be agreed on... when, where, with whom, and who pays... before the date :D

[Kelley1]

That is not what people do. Most of us do what is normal. That is, a guy asks for a dinner date. He picks her up and takes her to a place he selected. If an expensive restaurant, she doesn't order much and certainly not the most expensive items on the menu. He pays, and they go dancing, or he takes her home. It is only a date, so whatever happens, happens, but there is no expectation of sex.

[IslaTheWitch]

we have different "normal"... for me, normal is paying for myself and not creating expectations... any expectations...

for me normal is we meet somewhere, for a coffee or a meal together... we talk... we pay, we say goodbye... if I got there I can also return home from this place... I'm not a kid... I don't need a pick up service :D

[Kelley1]

Clearly, as you stated, we have different normals. Nothing is wrong with your normal, but it is not for me.

[Red_Arrow]

He invited her. Not her and her friend. And since he invited her, he should choose the restaurant. He can ask if she has a preference, though, so he is controlling the cost to him. And he can expect just her, not a friend. Since she did that, I think he handled it well.

[hahahmm]

If women don't owe a guy sex because he bought her a meal, why would he owe her anything for just having met her? It makes no sense. Life is a two way street. Guys have the right to control their money.

In the old days when women had the sense to at least pretend to give a guy a chance and not rub it in his face that she's with other dudes, and maybe actually give him a shot at proving he's interesting/attractive on the date, things worked differently

[slatyb]

She broke the contract of the date, which was for her to show up alone, and she also chose the restaurant. She was using him and got what she deserved. He made a poor choice for a date. I wonder how he met her.

[HighValue]

Each person should pay their own way. No splitting 50/50 because some would purposely pick very expensive stuff that is 3 to 5 times the price of the other person's food.

[standardguy]

Well if he invites her, he decides where to eat. Besides it's evident that's a date which means two persons only assist this meal. Any other scenario is abuse of his invitation.

And a think the guy in the story did right

[Surely]

Not when she is giving him a royal screwing! I don’t blame him for hitting the bricks.

[MrChinaski]

Meh. It depends. If he has a lot more money then he should pay. I think the standard in Western countries these days is you split.

[MrChinaski]

It is called 'Going Dutch', right?

[Ironco]

Good for him... never let someone take advantage of yourself.

[msc545]

Man did the right thing altho he let it go a little bit too far.

[princeofromance]

The man should always pay for the date no matter if she invited him or he invited her. This is what a true gentleman does for a lady.

[Cormac995]

Bro was 100% justified.

[Ariesman81]

Yep. He handled it perfectly.

[Sam1133]

Lol he is absolutely right...

[oldpigg]

I will never pay for a woman's meal.

[DrPepper12]

Good!!! FAFO & karma win again!!

[Bklynbadboy12]

He should pay no matter what

[LiamS95]

Good for him

[jahaims]

Equality

[jimmy2]

He invites yes

[Kelley1]

Did he also invite her girlfriend and agree to pay for a meal for her brother?