Anonymous(45 Plus)+1 yUnfortunately this question is asked frequently and there seems to be no consensus as to the reason(s) why fewer and fewer men/boys/guys etc. are willing to approach women. Rejection the obvious answer is the primary reason, but what rarely is discussed is the dynamics and reasoning behind rejection and the fear of rejection.
Some women believe men and men alone should always take the initiative, to do otherwise is unmanly and even socially inappropriate. Others in contrast are quite assertive in their behavior toward men, believing that to make such critical choice like a companion or just casual boyfriend their options must be broader than the women who rely entirely on the man making the first move. This is more common with well educated women who have usually invested a lot in career and are adamant about not getting into a bad relationship. They reason that by approaching men they are essentially expanding the field of possibilities from which to choose. They are always getting offers, especially from the jerks. So that combined with pursuing on their own raises their chances of starting a relationship that they initiated. This gives women a feeling of empowerment and reduces the odds of a bad relationship.
In the last half century the woman's movement has made possibilities for women that didn't exist in my mothers generation. The progress has improved our lives in so many ways. In this evolution our demeanor and even some of our basic personalities have taken a change for the better. More assertive, outspoken and responsible. We have learned that we don't need men financially. We can earn our own way in the world. In this new found freedom we have become something of a threat to SOME men, actually a shrinking minority of men. Mostly over 60 now. For the most part the ones under 60 have taken the journey with us and for the most part been supportive.
In this period of great change, the signals men and women send to one another have also changed, the problem is we are suffering from a communication gap between the sexes that has both men and women very confused and frustrated with one another. "Is he interested in me or did I read it wrong?" "Should I call her or will she think I'm pushy?" We are tripping all over each other and it's driving us crazy. Especially the guys who have been supportive of women advancing and have to put up neanderthal women who insist they be like cavemen, yes there's actually a woman on this site who believes that primal instinct crappola. We don't have to go running after guys like bitches in heat or act like street girls. But this attitude that we can't approach men is hurting women more than it hurts men.
Men are changing too and discovering they don't need women. Especially the shy ones. After what they've been through and the rejection all of them have experienced, they simply stay single and alone. And we women? Do you think we end up any different? If you would like to...84 Reply
Opinion Owner+1 ysee a sample of what I'm talking about read ouisch_babe7 or cuddlycarla. If you read what these women have to say there should be no question why there are fewer and fewer men knocking on our door. Or paying us any attention at all.
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Do you think we end up any different? You do. The shy guy never gets a first kiss, a girlfriend, a partner to share life with and because he is a single male he can never have kids or even adopt children because of his gender. While the girl goes out and *has her fun* with multiple guys and when no one wants her she can still have a family, she can still have kids, because of her gender can still adopt.
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If only more women would listen
Most Helpful Opinions
+1 yWow...some really great answers here but I'll throw this out there too.
Is it possible that in today's society we don't put as much value on kindness as we did in years past? I mean just good old ordinary "giving others the benefit of the doubt"?
I'd be curious to know what the guys have experienced...just HOW they've been rejected? (How rude or thoughtless can women be?)
I read an article recently about how guys often times get a bad wrap. I had to agree. MANY guys are decent. Many are willing to work and be committed to the wife and family. It's the few cocky, player types that spoil the image. Guys DO have feelings. They do need hugs, encouragement, etc but being men they can't be as open with their feelings as women, particularly in public. Guys will open up with a woman they feel safe with. As women, we must be careful not to betray that trust. I digress...
Bad experiences with one individual are easily transferred to the whole. For example, one truck driver on drugs kills a family on the highway and everyone "hates" truckers. A person of a certain ethnicity commits a crime and we think everyone of that decent is a criminal.
We must be careful with these types of judgments and with stereotypes. If we let them determine our behavior we'll certainly be giving off some hateful vibes to undeserving recipients.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that if women behaved more as ladies and were honest but kind and appreciative when responding to a request for a date, perhaps more guys would be willing to take the risks associated with such initiations.
ALL guys are NOT after sex. ALL guys aren't either jerks or wimps. AND to be fair, ALL women aren't hateful, Gold Diggers. LOL66 Reply- +1 y
What I've experienced? I've had 3 relationships, I was perfectly confident til we started going out, and because I'm not used to us being more than friends I don't have all the confidence I started out with cus I really like this girl, and all 3 broke up with me within 2 weeks. What hope do I have that I or the girl will be any different the fourth time?
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Its no surprise that you are of that age...any younger girl my age would NEVER have that attitude.
They would never look in the mirror like you did and admit that women need to be more supportive and understanding...women of this generation do not think they do anything wrong - +1 y
Lockjawx27, I'll take the age comment as a compliment and I'll add a tidbit of advice for you and eSHkidd, why not learn from your negative experiences rather than giving up so easily? What characteristics did these "evil" women share? What warning signs did you see? What sort of traits do you want your girl to have? How can things can you look for in a girl to see what sort of character she has? I'm sure you can come up with some good searching questions of your own. Good luck to you both.
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I have asked 3 women out before and all 3 ended in embarassment. The last time I asked a girl out I found out she had a boyfriend afterward and him and two other guys beat me up for it. Its been 3 years since I asked any women out. Does that mean I haven't found any women I would want to ask out no. I just don't feel comfortable putting myself in a position like that.
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I think part of the problem is that so many girls like the cocky jerks, so when the rest of us see this we just back off because the loud mouth jerks are the one who they seem to like, not the rest of us! I used to get upset over this but in time I learned my place. There is actually a great feeling of freedom once we just give up and pretty much ignore chicks
+1 yI'm speaking from personal experience and from friends I have, that girls like it when guys ask them out. It seems to indicate that the guy in question is confident not to mention that the girl gets a sort of medevil kick out of being the one asked. I'm not saying that girls shouldn't ask guys out, just that if they guy likes the girl or vise versa that the one who doing the "liking" should be the one to ask. Having guys not ask simply because they are afraid of what the girl might say is silly and waiting for the girl to ask you out is not a solution, the girl might be totally oblivious to the way you feel and be trying to not let on her feelings about you because she doesn't know how you feel about her. Besides, girls can ask guys out but they seem more unlikely to. Girls tend to expect the guy to be the first one to make a move. Guys, don't be so frightened of what we'll say =) we may surprise you xx
48 Reply- +1 y
So what you're saying is girls don't "like" guys and thats's why they never ask guys out?
You have some half baked statements that work both ways but you only focus on the one way that suits you in a true lazy feminist manner:
"one who doing the "liking" should be the one to ask."
"Waiting for the guy to ask you out is not a solution"
"girls can ask guys out but they seem more unlikely to" - +1 y
Yes, OK, so my gramma is not that great. I know I am not very good at english. And what I'm saying isn't that girls don't "like" guys just that they are more unlikely to ask them out because society has built up this stigma about the guy being required to do the asking. I think girls should do more asking but that, in general at this point in history, they will wait for the guy to make the first move. I'm not condoning this particular way of society just pointing out that it exists.
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Sorry guys, but this answer doesn't seem feminist at all to me. Maybe feminine, which should be obvious since she's a GIRL, but.. I'd look at a feminism website.
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so guys should ask girls out because the one who is doing the liking should be the one to ask.. so girls do not 'like' guys. The guy should ask in case the girl does like the guy,. because the girl might be uncertain of howe he feels, & she does not want to let him know... which would mean she likes him no?
yea OK incoherent. here's the coherent version-- if you like someone ask them out. fear just increses. the fewer things you are afraid of- women & men. men & women. the more you get done in life. - +1 y
it depends on how the girl rejects the guy that makes guys tired of having to make the first move
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While the stupid concept of Feminism keeps surfacing, guys are not likely to do their natural thing - the thing they were born to do.
Also, as someone else has mentioned, the Fems have now got everyone worried about charges of 'sexual harrassment"! ... meaning, that if the girl doesn't like them, they could claim harassment!
Such is the legal nonsense left or instigated via feminism!
If YOU want nature ... if you want Fun, you have to get rid of the feministic nonsense in society today!
+1 yWell lets boil it down past the sexes issue. People are generally afraid of rejection, plain and simple. Who really likes to get their ego smashed to pieces, and regularly if they're trying all the time? It will be very detrimental to your self-esteem, and probably start causing other mental issues.
I personally hate it with a passion. That's why I don't ask certain girls out, because of this rejection factor. I do ask girls out, and I usually do get rejected, but by that time, I've already mentally prepared myself to accept that there's nothing going to happen between us; i.e. ready to accept to be in the friend zone. But I will not go up to a girl I don't know, and ask her out. The chances of rejection are so high, and at these times, you can never mentally prepare for this, because like an anonymous poster wrote, there are so many ways a girl can turn a guy down these days.
Now I think it was easier back in the hey day, because their was inequality (I'm not pro in-equality, but here this out), and we had roles we all played. Guys would ask girls out, and that was that. A girl could accept or deny. But given that the gender roles are nowadays ever changing, anything can happen, and in different method. I've always thought that back in the hey day, that if a girl was going to reject your advances, although they'd be flattering, she would do it gracefully, and the gentleman (I'm assuming) would also accept the rejection gratefully.
But these days, some girls are given so much power in this dynamic, that they can flame you till your chargrilled, and would reject you not so gracefully. Actually some make it a public spectacle. A girl will speak her mind (which I'm all for), but sometimes, when she does speak her mind, it comes out more hurtful, than being a nice person; some want to take you to task, for even contemplating asking them out.
Also, it's been stated below, that some would see you as a creep. No longer is it flattering if a guy were to ask you out, and you'd reject him. Now, it seems that you're a creep for even thinking about it. Imagined if you asked around work / school / uni, about her - the creep factor has multiplied exponentially. Tell me that this isn't a smash to someone's confidence, and self-esteem. I don't think I've seen a guy reject a girl humiliatingly before (but that's probably because the girl isn't asking the guy out in the first place...haha)
Although some things have changed since equality has been raised as an issue, that doesn't mean everything has progressed in the same fashion - if we were equal, guys and girls would be asking each other out.
And you're right, guys should man up, and just ask girls out. But there will always be the fear factor which will hold them back, and sometimes, the risks don't justify the benefits.86 Reply- +1 y
Truthfully thought I've realize that only assholes these days seem to ask out girls.
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WOW! you hit the nail on the head! like your train of thought! so very true... women are rude... and yes its wrong to make a scene but some girls are like that and yes I said girls! I can honestly say I've been rude because the guy was TOO persistent after I kindly denied him my number... but I won't approach a guy and say hey you're cute lets go out... lol you're right no one likes to be rejected.
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They certainly do make it painful. No wonder so many guys give up.
+1 yWhy would we go out for something we can't have? :P Fighting in a battle you have lost seems to be an illogical and stupid idea. Why ask if you already know she'd say no.
Apparently guys either wait like girls used to wait or they just admire from afar and don't really want to confront about this matter at all. Why? Easy, girls should especially know this, as girls do the exact same thing.
Girls stare at that "marvellously charming" guy who doesn't even realize that she's staring at him, and wait day by day that eventually he would notice and reciprocate her feelings, ask her out, and make her be happy. That's how it goes for girls... And that's really similar to how it goes for guys - we are all human, we're not all that different. Guys just sit there, knowing that the girl has no idea how much he admires her, and just wait until there's no hope left anymore.
So why is this beneficial, considering he gets nothing? Easy, he doesn't lose anything. If you establish contact with a girl, you talk a lot through MSN and become "great friends", and develop feelings for her... then she tells you "I actually just see you as a friend, but now that you have told me, I'll just avoid you so you'll also forget about your feelings. I don't really care how much it hurts, because it's your problem, not mine." And you even lose her friendship, because girls cannot handle the "after-rejection" well, either. The relation between them is "just not the same". The girl avoids you, hides from you, hates you and wants you to go far, far away and never see her again, despite how she used to lie that you are a great friend of her. Yes, a disposable one.
LONG STORY SHORT: Guys can be intimidated because being told "no" is a negative feedback saying "you are not worthy enough to get together with me", and despite how it's just a two-letter word, it stays with you for years, and it consumes every bit of your self-esteem. Also, girls start to avoid you after rejecting you, even if they considered you a friend, hence why it's not worth "just telling them how you feel", as they cannot handle the truth.75 Reply- +1 y
Don't you think that any guy who wants to ask you is just desperate and wants to have sex?
Obviously this goes two-ways. - +1 y
Yes I do. It's really sad that guys don't want to care or date girls anymore. All they want is to find a girl they can bang. Honestly, that's pathetic.
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You can't be sure about that. But with that generalization, you cannot really filter out who wants what and assume everyone is evil. But usually the guys who would care about or date girls the way you say are those who girls don't find personality-wise masculine enough therefore they find them unattractive. But you really can't have your cake and eat it - if girls didn't associate not-caring-so-much with masculinity, they would not have these problems. This is more pathetic.
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Hmm true. Maybe it IS the type of guys I go for. I tend to go for the charming good looking type of guys to date or any of that. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places.
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Though, there isn't really a "type" to put people in. No one is the same as the other.. Some charming good looking guy might actually be nice. You can't tell... But the most silent guy hiding in the corner could also be a nice person once you get to know him. But it could be the exact opposite. You can't know for sure.
What Girls & Guys Said
Opinion
113Opinion
625 opinions shared on Flirting topic. I don't know if I answered this or not I don't really feel like looking throw 100 answers. But to me I don't ask women, I have gotten a girl to aks me out before (although it turned out pretty bad) I gave her a chance which is more than I can say about any women I have ever asked out. I know girls don't want to ask guys out because there scared but guys get scared as well, and if you have had bad experiances before just telling someone oh well or just get over it isn't going to work.
Also in my experiance I have come to realize the fantasys of girls wanting the nice sweet quiet guys is fading and fading fast. Those type of guys for the most part don't make moves I will give you that but the constant obsession with excitment that people want to live life on the edge and live for the moment really doesn't do the nice, sweet, quiet guys any favors. It appears in a fairly short amount of time most guys will become one dimensional in the fact they all must live up to what is hype and they always must be exciting instead of being themselvs. Its really just processing a line of zombies who who listen to the same music, wear the same clothes, talk the same, and eventualy thing the same.
Not to mention 2011 men have more pressure then any men before them to be in shape, to look good, to have proper grooming. Everywhere we look in this day in age men now are shown on tv, adds anything as having to be big muscular and attractive. Yes women have had to deal with this for a long time but this is new to the male species and we are adJusting to it and apart of this adjustment is having to hear criticism about the way we look as well now. And a lot of guys can't take that. I myself since joining this site have been told my eyebrows are to bushy, my shoulders are to hunched, I been called a slob because I have a picture with stubble, I been called fat because my face is slightly rounded towards the bottom and I been criticised about how light my skin is. These are all things men for thousands of years never had to worry about now we do and now we have developed into more protective creatures who don't want to be judged or criticised negitivly.60 Reply
+1 y
All of the answers are going to be generalizations, but as a man that rarely asks girls out, I'll try to talk from personal experience where I can.
You seem to have broken down men into 2 groups, the "cocky asshole" and the proverbial "nice guy." All men are at least a little of both, but we'll assume that those are the two main groups.
About the "cocky asshole": this guy doesn't give a sh*t what you think about him. He doesn't care about you, he cares about him, and what you can do for him.He may be nice to you, but ultimately the reason he has so much confidence when he talks to you is because at the end of the day, you and your opinion do not matter to him, or his opinion of himself. He can be funny and charming but when you get right down to it, the person he thinks about and considers most is himself. The cocky asshole is willing to walk right up to you and ask you out, without knowing you at all, because whether you say yes or no, since you don't matter, his ego will remain intact.He also is pretty shameless, and won't worry about what someone else will think if he's asking out a girl based solely on her looks.
The proverbial "nice guy": Let me preface this - I don't know a single nice guy that will ask out a stranger. A nice guy needs to pretty much already be friends to ask you out. Nice guys won't ask you out based on your looks alone, that sh*t is shallow so they'll want to take the time to get to know you in a friendship level. Once you're friends, and he thinks you might be a potential match, he probably still won't ask you out. He cares what you think, and you're friends, so the rejection is a lot more personal. Since a nice guy cares what you think, instead of being confident and nonchalant about asking you out, he'll be nervous. unfortunately, "nervousness" pretty much translates directly to "creepiness." Don't get me wrong, you've probably been asked out by some creepy guys, but most of them were probably genuinely nice fellows that were just nervous, because you mattered to them.
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other thoughts:
"innocent til proven guilty" is the moniker for the justice system. in dating today, it's basically "stalker/rapist til proven otherwise." I really hate how this one has worked out. There are so many crazy people out there that women have to protect themselves by keeping men at a significant distance. As a nice guy, I understand why women do it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's *extremely* offensive to be treated this way. I guess the way things work out is that it's really tough for women to tell which guys are just a little nervous and which guys are crazy, which results in more rejection for the nice guy, and more reluctance to ask out or even show interest in the next girl.82 Reply- +1 y
I had a lot more but it's too much trouble to copy paste into here in 500 character chunks :(
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I love this! I agree with you totally. I know it's 3 months down the road with the kudos, but you are right and it's a shame more women don't see it this way.
+1 yWell, do you girls like to get shot down when asking a guy out? It's an easy question to answer if you ask me. Unless you have built up an immunity to rejection or being rejected, then you definitely don't like to be rejected. So of course you don't want to put yourself in that situation. Also, when women do it, you girls can be pretty harsh. Say you're in a club or something, and you want this one guy you're interested in to come up and talk to you, but there are other girls in the club that he has his eye on. He does know you are interest in him, or else he really is out to lunch and clueless, but isn't making a move because he isn't interested. Then there is another guy who noticed you ever since you walked into the club. He's not the guy you are attracted to because you have your eyes, heart set on this one. So he (the uninteresting one) get's enough balls and courage to ask you to dance or for a drink or something and probably doesn't know what to say to someone that's not showing interest to gain her interest, and then get's shot down or laughed at or just ignored. Well, once bitten, twice shy so the saying goes.
Another scenario is the girl the guy is interested in isn't showing any signs of interest in him. So the guy tries to ask her out, but then gets a weird look, or like, where is this coming from sort of answer from the girl. This ruins the friendship or he's always going to feel awkward around this girl from now on. Especially if he's liked her for a long time.
Also, most girls I've heard, likes a guy to approach them with confidence. That's a lot easier to do when you get an inclination that the girl has some interest in you. But if you go blind, it takes a little more razzle-dazzle or more charm to catch a woman's interest. Depending I guess on the situation and environment. That's why it's a bad idea for women looking for a true relationship to try and find someone in a club setting. A club is like an arena where the fittest and most confident and strongest survive. It's also competition based because of this fact. So if you're going to a club, in a guy's mind, it's all about competition and if I am the better guy than any other guy in there tonight for one woman I choose. So you have to have even more testosterone or exude more cockiness to gain the confidence and strength to be the with the most charm, best attitude, best looking out of many with the same look, style, ability, etc. in the arena.11 Reply- +1 y
Without the complimentary characteristics of femininity, masculinity can not survive. And we crave masculine men, those men who are strong enough to put up with our bullsh*t and still love us when we don't deserve it. WOMEN SPEAK UP! Wouldn't you love to f**k up any and still feel accepted and wanted? MEN WANTED! Wouldn't you love to be admired for not being judgmental?
I would agree with most of the stuff that the guys said below. Being rejected by somebody you actually like is not exactly fun, or even something that just doesn't phase you. But part of it is also that girls throw around terms like "creep" and "stalker" WAY too much. Imagine if you approached a guy and he arbitrarily decided you weren't attractive and then told you "Go away whore.", and laughed in your face. That's basically what guys get if they're unfortunate enough to approach the wrong girl. If there were some social repercussion for women who are excessively cruel in their rejections then maybe it would get easier to approach women in general. But until then, you'll just have to understand that it is difficult to put yourself out there like that, and it can prove quite painful. It's essentially the same reason most girls don't want to approach a guy.
Oh, and it doesn't help that after college the most common place to meet someone is at work. Yet, if you so much as look at a woman at work in a way she decides she doesn't like, you can be fired for sexual harassment because they will basically just take her word for it.123 Reply- +1 y
O trust me, I understand the whole rejection thing completely, I've been there done that. It totally sucks, but I've also asked out guys and they've said yes as well. See the thing I don't get is, guys, if you really like a girl ask her out. I mean why waste time wondering what could be? Just be a man and let her know you're interested. Worse off, she says no. Best case scenario, she says yes.
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I generally agree. It's really about how you're weighing the risk of rejection vs the reward of acceptance. If for some reason you think you're much more likely to be rejected, then the risk might be too high to be worth the effort. If you want a guy to approach you, smile at him, and maybe even wave. That makes it much easier, because a gesture like that signals a lower risk of rejection.
It does not make you girls seem desperate when asking us guys out, If anything it would be the other way round. I think it all depends on your actions, or how you ask. I personally feel that guys should always be the one to make the first move, but I'm not saying that girls shouldn't try as well. what I think is that it would be so much easier if both sides show that they're interested in one another. It don't have to be verbally, sometimes a little body language, or a little signal would do. Make eye contact, smile or smile back, wave, or finger-brush your hair back, anything is better than guessing.I guess you could say it would be like a first move, but think about it. When you give that one signal of interest it will ease that person and possibly likely to give them that bit of confidence to initiate. I'm just putting it out there, if both sides could just play that little part instead of guessing games, it'll be so much easier.
As for rejection, yes, majority of guys like myself ARE that scared of rejection. Sometimes its not the rejection, there are also insecurity, or financially unstable, and so on. The thing is that there are only so much rejection that a guy could take, when a guy gets rejected over and over again it eventually hits the quitting point. That fear of rejection grows with each rejection, so those of you saying that it'll be easier after the first one is somewhat wrong, and by somewhat I mean that not all men are the same and think the same. Now, after so many attempts that fear has amplified enormously to where that person quits therefor, no more asking girls to go out, but wait for them to ask or show an interest instead. These are most of my experiences and till this day still scared of rejection, but the only thing is that I'm not a quitting type. I still try every now and then, but also what I like to put out there is being used. one of which that made me not want to search anymore. That person that would pretend to like you but was all an act just to get what they want. Anyways, body language is the key, let that person know that your interested by giving signs and if that person is interested in you, they'll give back a sign or initiate the first move. If that person does not have any interest the worst thing theyll do is ignore the sign and move on, no exchange of word or public humiliation lol.
One more thing, If the guys are overly-confident, obnoxious, cocky douche-bags, then get rid of them. I can say for the nearly extinct nice guys still left in the world like myself, that you deserve better than to be mistreated, or used, or whatever the case may be.
There's more that I want say relating to this topic but I'm too tired and lazy to go on, but I hope this helped a bit, but, sayonara! - Kajima B.00 Reply
+1 yDuh, rejection much?
Why are women afraid to make a move? It isn't 1414 AD any more.
The answer? Rejection. WHat if I get rejected?
How are men supposed to be better prepared for rejection than a woman? That's sexist. You may think "I never wrote that," but it's the or an underlying facet of society. Women are, since birth, fashioned to be strong, but not too strong, fair, but not too fair, nice, but not too nice, etc. While men are fashioned to be rugged, and more rugged; stoic and more stoic. Certainty, they can handle a little "no". Well men are raised, a lot of them, to withstand a punch, or an ego kick from a male; but it's different coming from a female. Hearing "no" is still hurtful. WHy put myself out on a line that may not be sturdy enough to hold the weight of my drooping shoulders? It takes some form of confidence to ask a girl out. So of course you'll get the overly cocky ones asking. They have confidence. Duh. ANy ways, let's use a stereotype here, women are intuitive and have a sixth sense. USe it, you know a guy likes you; ask him out if you like him; but don't waste his time.101 Reply- +1 y
I guess I can make sense with the whole rejection thing. We're humans we don't wanna get hurt and it sucks to be hurt. I don't even think asking someone out anymore is enough. Because people can tell you they want to be with you and love you, and the next minute they change they're mind and say that they never loved me... :/
Im going to go with what jacksparrow55 said on this. The person being approached already knows that genuine interest is there. They can confidently act the way they wish to. But the asker has to try hard to interpret their feeling, and tread lightly as to not make a wrong move.
It's often not worth it to go after a girl. They screw around too much and make you feel like an idiot for thinking they might be interested, but then again they might be, and are just making jokes. If I'm at a bar, and I'm already having a good time, Its not worth my time to just spend 20 min being tested or toyed with.
When a girl asks a guy, they can at least know that he will be serious, unless he is a complete jerk and had no intention of hooking up in the first place, and in that case, you just walk away.
Note that not every girls will do this, but once it happens, you just lose motivation to try.
Gender rolls suck. they just need to go away. from the looks of it, both girls and guys arnt happy with them.80 Reply
+1 yguys that are shy, depressed from lonelyness from never having a girlfriend, ignored by girls, called ugly by girls, and have zero confidence, and are sensitive just are considered unattractive by girls and its so sad, plus guys that are like this know they are unwanted/unloved and there's nothing we can do about it... the over confident or cocky assholes seem to always attract the girls when some of us guys that are genuinly and naturally nice don't attract anything ... I never even catch a girl looking at me so I just consider I'm unattractive. there's only so much rejection a guy can take then we just give up and wait till a girl wants us. plus girls don't really want a guy in the first place so its difficult to even impress a girl ... and girls seem to think only the guy has to ask the girl out etc just because we are called MAN or GUY ... and just because guys have balls we're stereotyped as always confident well girls have balls too but they are inside the body and they are called ovaries... and girls are stuck into thinking there's a rule that guys have to only ask the girl out ... NEWS FLASH ...THERE ARE NO RULES ... and guys have emotions too
70 Reply
+1 yThere has been a fundamental shift in terms of approaching and the like, and I believe men have become emasculated by feminism and the mass media to the extent where rejection can prove most crippling and humiliating, causing near irreparable damage to one's psyche. There has been a superhuman amount of garbage being pumped by the media chum-bucket as regards conforming to a certain standard (this goes both ways) but the problem, I believe, is that females can be arbitrarily cruel given that they are more often than not the ones pursued and hence wield more power to that end. Given this disparity it follows that men are more hesitant/reticent in approaching and, ergo, face a higher percentage of rejection.
Nevertheless, it would be puerile to resort to tit-for-tat, but some common decency would not be remiss; quite simply, if you're not interested in a person on an aesthetic/attraction/dating level it isn't too much to not dehumanise them. Also, rejection can be considered a good thing- for my part it used to paralyse me and make me depressed; however, it now spurs me on to constantly improve myself where the only validation I need is that coming from within and not from anybody else; so if a girl's interested, great; if not, it doesn't bother me as I still have accomplishments instead of wallowing in self-pity. Life is, after all, too short for the luxury of feeling sorry for one-self.76 Reply- +1 y
Thanks-I couldn't help using the big words but overall I appreciate you agree with me and my view on this.
- +1 y
You are right on....and I personally like it when folks use "big words" as it raises the bar for all of us...and that's a good thing! (In general, education has gone downhill with the advance of technology.)
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> (In general, education has gone downhill with the advance of technology.)
It's funny that you say that in the context of using big words, I learned most of my English on the internet, and I suspect that without the advance of technology you demonize I wouldn't have been able to understand what you were saying in the first place.
I think your 'advance of technology -> worse education' stance is ridiculous and not based on any facts. Just look like stuff like literacy over the centuries. - +1 y
Education was dictated by accessibility to information/knowledge-granted; however I believe there has been a cultural shift whereby with so much access to information people chose to remain ignorant and manipulated by the garbage coming from the media and the internet; people have become increasingly lazy and reliant upon technology to solve their problems instead of picking up a book; instead of literature and philosophy people will blindly read/ingest the s*** from the internet/media.
Anonymous(30-35)+1 yI'm often afraid that a girl might tell her friends something ugly and all my opportunities in the crowd would all look down on me. She would make sure of it. So many girls nowadays make it a point to led guys on and dump on a guy when the chase is lost. How does a guy know which ones are bad apples when so many are? I just went threw 3 girls in different crowds who lied and acted like they where single normal and mine. Once I asked the question it showed I liked her and it was over, the truth came out. 90% of women who have boyfriends hit on someone else taking it way to far. Then dump on them because their is no chase just like their boyfriends getting at home. That's why you never tell a girl you love her. One girl on this site said I like all the guys to win me over. And I choose the best one. How sad for all those guys who wasted their time. I can just see her at work once her man pisses her off. Assholes don't get the numbers since or have all the pretty girls smiling. But theirs a chase with a asshole. Allot of women want to be spoiled brats. Seducers who love to play games and reject guys to feel wanted. Women are not graceful or respectful. Guys are afraid of rejection. It's more a sport for women to lead guys on and destroy them for ego then respect that he is single and they already have a boyfriend. So many women are players it's hard to be rejected. Women SUCK!
111 Reply- +1 y
You sound like you had a bad experience.:( All women are not like that. I don't believe in wasting time. For example, if I see that a guy is interested in me, and I'm not interested in them in the same way, I treat them indifferently, but kindly. I give subtle hints that I only see them as a friend. It takes away the feeling of rejection. I'm not so cruel as to lead them on. They'll know where I stand from the beginning.
Anonymous(45 Plus)+1 yJust some quick thoughts. Even though the times are changing for the better for today's woman, they seem like it's the 18th century when it comes to asking out a guy. OK we all know about the loud overconfident jerk. Well, won't you at least admit that is the type of guy who always gets the girl. It makes me mad as hell but that is a sad even pathetic fact, that women from young teen girls right up to my age (40yo) fall for the "Smooth BSers" who end up making them miserable but they fall for it anyway. Time after time . Year after year I see nice, beautiful and intelligent women make the worst decisions about guys and the price they pay is tremendous.
Now to my point. Wanna know the best kept secret in the world? In the population of these "Shy Guys"? Their are some GEMS. And I mean great men. Men who believe it or not ARE confident and successful. They just happen NOT to be confident with women! Most of them are at least good natured and usually more friendly than we think. Once we start talking to them we'll see them loosen up and more importantly open up. What we girls have yet to learn is that despite all our obvious differences, men and women share many of the same reservations and insecurities. That shouldn't make us undesirable people, but in this very judgmental world it hits shy people the hardest, especially the guys.
For heaven sake don't miss a chance if you really like a guy. If you don't approach you'll never know. Just the fact that you are interested enough to ask this question puts you well ahead of the young women in your age group who are going to learn MEN101 the hard way. Good luck to you. I hope you find the guy of your dreams.123 Reply- +1 y
Thank you for giving hope in a world (and website) that is hostile to decent people.
- +1 y
I can't disagree with what you said, it makes perfect sense. Maybe the hardest blow next to a girls rejection is to see the kind of neanderthal idiots they actually do go out with. That's the most insulting part. Talk about a punch in the self esteem!
Some men in today's society have been castrated mentally by the Feminist movement of the last 40 years. These men will seek out women who have a mentality closer to that of women before this movement, although they don't exist that much anymore. A consequence of this movement created sexual harassment laws in the work place that have made it nearly impossible for a man to ask woman out, lest he be fired for doing so.
Also, even though wage indicators show men making more than women, women occupy a greater sector of jobs that men occupied 30 to 40 years ago, mainly middle sector business, white collar jobs. With women filling in these positions, men making less will likely avoid dating a women of higher wage. It is easily proven that a man will avoid a woman who makes more than he does.
So, to answer your question: Society has made average men cautious of the modern women. The higher your status as a women, the less likely you will find a partner. The lower your status, the easier you'll find a date and a partner.43 Reply- +1 y
The so called feminist movements indeed destroyed the polarity of men and women alike.
Women, due to male role models in the business world began to model male behavior, became tough and thus less approachable even in terms of intimate relationships. Once we have to be tough we are having an amazingly hard time to go back to our natural flow, the sensitivity, the intuition, the vulnerability and openness. - +1 y
The "so-called feminist movements" also made it so that women could play sports in school and professionally, and go to college. So, uh, yeah.
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I am so glad that Finally, some 30 years after I wrote the book, that there are now people who are waking up to the oure destructive power that Feminism has been for all of us! ... including the Fems themselves! that is the whole Irony.
If you can get hold of it at all, you will find most of your answers in the book, "Australia Imploded!", by Denis Towers
+1 yWow...all this sexism in just a few sentences. Its not about men being afraid of rejection, if you're out and attractive...they likely assume you already have a man and have enough respect commonly to not step on other peoples toes. No men don't have to be the only person that asks someone out...you are a grown up now, and this isn't the fifties where you have to sit by the phone and wait for some suitor to come a-calling. You are supposed to try to pretend to be strong and independant for yourself...do attempt to learn to be. You are better than assuming someone should come up to you...thats...almost arrogant. "Im sitting over HERE. Yeah I like him, but IM NOT getting up...if HE wants to talk he should come to ME!" I mean...it sounds selfish arrogant, cocky, and even childish...youre better than that. The next time YOU see a man YOU like...dont wait for him to come to you, don't wait for some other girl to chat him up, just stand your own butt up and go offer to buy him a beer. Every guy likes a girl who is assertive and aggressive and can speak the truth about the things she wants. You go do that to a guy...just come up and start chatting with him...and damn if you don't have a date!
41 ReplyI think it ultimately boils down to issues with the guys self-confidence. Many people(men and women) seem to take rejection as an evaluation of their self-worth, like the person rejecting them is saying "you are not good enough, you don't deserve to have a loving relationship " when they are really just trying to say,"you are not the right person for me." A confident person does not let this rejection shake the image they have of themselves, because they know they are good enough and deserve a loving relationship, even if it doesn't work out with a particular partner. I have to say that the media, including hollywood romantic comedies, and music about love do many men these days a great disservice by providing TERRIBLE male role-models to emulate. A perfect example is that silly Blue October song, "Calling you," where the guy sings about calling his girl incessantly to see if she's asleep, dreaming, dreaming of him, asking if she loves him...YUCK! I call that song the guide to becoming a f*ing stalker, haha. Fact is, the vast majority of women are attracted to men, not little boys or guys who act like women. A man is comfortable with himself, is comfortable with any outcome of his situation with a woman, is a leader, is decisive, carries himself with confident body language, makes good eye contact, takes care of his needs first, etc. I would agree that a girl asking a guy out is unconventional, but not taboo. Some men may find this type of aggressive behavior from a woman highly appealing, while others like maintaining a dominant role in the relationship dynamic. IMO, its the guy's role to take the lead and pursue the girl he desires.
30 Reply
+1 yExcept for rare occasions, I always initiate contact with a girl. And I have pretty much gotten all responses, so I think I may be able to help with this. Any guy who has learned to manage the fear -- nobody really gets over it -- and has approached many women knows that few, if any, respond negatively. Even if you aren't interested, aren't you still a little flattered someone noticed you? However, there is no way to tell from a first meeting what will happen afterward. A girl can smile and laugh and blush and give you her number like it's burning a hole in her phone, then vanish like David Copperfield for the rest of eternity when you call her. It's situations like these that lead men to guard their emotions stronger than necessary. Men aren't afraid of the rejection itself; they're afraid of receiving confirmation that they're undesirable. And that's on the top 5 desert island fears of all living beings as long as sex remains the means of procreation. So try this... Be clearer in your interest. Flirt and create opportunities for the right kind of guy to ask you, not frat boys in backward-turned white hats. Make yourself available for enough time that he doesn't have to think of some Shakespearian icebreaker in 6 seconds just to get your number. Save the playing hard to get sh*t for later, when he knows you like him. Otherwise you could wait forever for a confident, good-looking, intelligent man who isn't also an asshole.
81 ReplyI have trouble asking girls out now because of the constant rejection. In high school I just assumed they were being stuck up, but now I just don't know. All the girls I know now, from friends to coworkers of all ages, tell me I'm handsome, nice, and sweet and don't have to worry about it. However, when I ask a girl out I'm never the kind of guy they're looking for. We could be having a good conversation and be laughing, but I just don't meet what they're looking for. It has got to the point where I just don't think any girl is interested. A few months ago I was at a store I frequent and the cashier and I were talking about a movie that was coming out and thought nothing of it. After we left my friend and his girlfriend said they could see she was interested in me. I see her often when I go, but can't bring myself to ask because it just seems I already hear her saying no.
I don't think I'm handsome like some say, but I'm not like some troll so big I need to wear sweatpants because nothing else fits. The last couple of dates I had didn't go well, the worst of the two ended with the girl saying she could do better. I see a lot of girls going out with guys with no job or car. They often take them to walmart to walk around and act like jerks making fun of the people who have a job and can pay for themselves.
So when I see this is what they go for I just don't understand, and it does affect my confidence on asking a girl out. The jerks that don't care will ask away, but those of us that do care about personality and intelligence just don't have a chance.10 Reply
+1 yIt's why the jerks get the girls. "Nice" guys like to feel sorry for themselves by saying it's because they are nice that they don't get girls when in reality, it's because they aren't assertive. Early bird gets the worm! I agree that any guy that likes you, jerk or nice, should be able to tell you. What's the worse that can happen? You say no. There are 3 billion other fish in the sea, life moves on. Despite any advances in gender role expectations, we do still live in a patriarchal society and men are still (and will always be) the dominant sex due to their strength and size, therefore I think society will always feel a need (and women biologically) to expect a man to assert himself since he holds more societal power. However, there will always be guys who are introverted, shy, passive, etc, and sadly they allow a good girl to pass them by because they can't bring themselves to just ask and by the time they finally get around to it, she's with someone else. My words of encouragement are for men of all types to just go for it. Women should feel that freedom too.
18 Reply- +1 y
Hmmm ... Easy to say if you have that mindset or if you approach a girl with that mindset. But what about when the Girl does not like the guy who approaches or does not find them aesthetically pleasing, or god forbid, repulsive? Does this hinder your way of thinking and cause you to act differently? I bet most women who say men should just go for it or bang on about how they they would treat a man with respect if they had to reject them would turn ultra venemous if the latter approached them.
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actually, nice guys do ask girls out more than it seems, they just get rejected
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I think you may be missing a very important point here. Many men are stand-offish not from any lack of courage or assertion, but because they are keenly aware of the low class women with backward ideas like yourself and constantly on guard to avoid them. Biologically Wired? Get real! I can only imagine the kind of losers you date.
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My you are a nasty little person. You really do seem to enjoy spewing your hatred all over this site!
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I've noticed you're full of responses, but haven't got the courage to respond. What a coward!
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Amazing how a 19 year old is already more mature than a 31 year old.
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"I've noticed you're full of responses, but haven't got the courage to respond."
That doesn't make sense. If they haven't got the courage to respond, then how do you know they are full of responses? o_O
+1 yHey love_life,
Unless you are one of these over-confident or cocky guys, then it can be quite difficult for a guy to ask a girl out due to personal insecurities, fear of rejection, etc. Of course there is nothing to be scared of in reality, if you say no so what? Move on with life, etc.
But, of course, this isn't how guys think. They think, "I'm single. I've been single for a while. I like that girl but I can't tell if she likes me so I'm not going to blow it by asking her out when I don't know and then she'll probably say no and then I'll be single and feel worse about myself..."
As such, this type of guy will instead look for "signals" that the girl is interested in him. Even if he gets these signals, however, he still may not actually ask her out after all -> having psyched himself out in the meantime.
For this reason, I recommend girls ask guys out if they want to go out and not wait for him because he might... not.
Best
- Evan
Women: What You Can Do If He Doesn’t Call -> link10 ReplyNot afraid, just sometimes now there is insufficient upside to bother. Rebalancing gender power has been a necessary and good thing, still needed in some parts of the world.
It means now though that women are in a greater position to humiliate and damage someone they reject, should they decide to. Hence it is a higher hurdle to outweigh this greater risk needed to ask the question.
> Don't guys think girls who ask them out are desperate?
No, it is flattering and validating. I never unstood why some women asked by someone they thought out of their league, regarded the guy as an a$$hole? The guy has still just paid her a big compliment, no? Or is the blow to her ego that someone more ordinary in terms of superficial attraction thought her his equal?
> OR assume they just want sex from them?
I'd never assume that about a woman. That way if I'm wrong there's an upside I like very much, if not I lost nothing. With no expectation, there is much lower risk of speaking or acting in a way that can be misconstrued. It is a sad thing in some ways, but flirting that people enjoyed has now been curtailed by the risk of being sued for saying or doing something non PC.00 Replymy personal experience/reasons
1. I was teen in the 90s, everybody was talking about gender equality, so I did expect that in this realm. Also, it was very useful because I just had no balls to ask, and also had too many fears I'd be considered the usual dog/pig, everybody must be hitting on her, I'll be just one in a million
2. shyness and issues around sex, like feeling guilty with my mother and fear that sex is wrong
3. I heard the mantra, you don't touch a girl not even with a flower
4. we males are wrong/dogs/pigs and our desires are wrong
5. I just had the idea that girls don't really like sex
6. a woman is a superior being and you're lucky if you ever get her graces, you must romance her and kiss her ass... not treat her like you used to at the kindergarten
7. f***ing catholic church
8. feeling of powerlessness, like if I go up there she's got the upper hand on me and has me by the balls, she's got control of the whole game, beside, what would she possibly find interesting in me? I'm not the gladiator and never will
9. I'm a slimy ass kisser, a puppy
10. in clubs/bars, too afraid she gives me attention just to toy with me
11. she really seems interested, but then I think if I go up there as soon as I open my mouth I make an ass of me, she gives me that disgusted look as if I'm the most disgusting thing she's ever seen
12. I feel guilty for wanting just sex
13. I feel guilty for being shallow and being attracted to her because she' shallow
14. I don't want to hurt the feelings of her friend because she's uglier, I'm a bastard
15. I'm afraid id be ridiculed if I openly show sexual interested, it's something just not acceptable
I come from a rural place in italy, it's not like I'm a peasant, but the real mainstream culture back in the 80s and 90s was still a lot like middle ages, combined with the fact that however, feminism did make not acceptable anymore for males to be aggressive, the only way was to be like girls.01 Reply
+1 yMe I don't approach girl cuzz of my shyness, or either cuzz they I might not be there type I have thing for girlies you know the ones who wear those boots, dress all nice that's why I myself had to change my style I use to be a baggie boy, but now I change my style into a pretty boy swagg! I usually have more girls now starring at me smiling at me and now sometimes I get a Hi from girls to!
Well I'm a shy Guy and I never asked a girl out. I've notice girls smiling starring at me you know maybe they try to get my attention so I can make a move is that what you girls do to get a guys attention? Oh what do you do? Cuzz I know its usually the guys job to make the move but me! I never been in a serious relationship cuzz of my shyness/; and I'm already 18 I'm not gonna lie I do dress nice I have colored eyes that's how I usually get girls smiling at me I think I don't really know if a girl likes me or not cuzz damn is really hard to know if a girls likes us cuzz they don't really show it/; they wait for us to make a move00 Reply
Anonymous(36-45)+1 yI think many guys are just lazy - too lazy to work for something they want.
But in their defense sometimes it's just hard to tell if someone's worth working for (I mean nowadays it's not like girls are looking for a husband, they just look for a good partner, so it's more a matter of mutual interest than economic necessity to date someone...so both parties are kinda hesistant if someone is worth their time and money to spend on), so I think if you want to get to know a guy, just try to get to know him.
If he decides that you're his type, he should be able to ask you out though.
The guy I'm just dating - well, I liked him and he liked me but he didn't call me, so I called him, just like that and after a few conversations he invited me for dinner and that's how it started. I call him still a bit more often than he does, but he was always the one to ask me out. Maybe I made it too easy for him, but I don't think so. Some guys even then won't ask you out and then I would just let it be.01 Reply
Anonymous(36-45)+1 yI can play any card in the deck of 52 girl. Confident, shy, cocky, asshole you name it I have done them all and most of it leads to no where. If you want a material approach which most women do, such as "let's go get coffee sometime" or "would you like a protein shake?" even a simple "hi how are you?" to test the waters. Most women are irritated with being approached. They're more likely to make you out to be a stalker in a gym by telling on you at the front desk. I seen this before myself and laughed. Most men aren't going to waste his invaluable time with some girl who is boring, does nothing but lay around in the sun all day, swims, eats, then more sun tan lotion. Fixes herself up etc. If you want a guy so bad to approach you that you like stop crying about it. Do what men do keep trying! As for myself I'm tired of the bullsh*t, don't like the constant games and have found more happiness being alone and not annoyed. It's work that usually goes no where. Most guys will wait for the girl since they know this way the girl is serious possibly. In the mean time men are busy with work, hobbies etc. Looking to make forward progress in his chosen endeavors. Women are just spoiled and selfish and want it all handed to them because they think their pu$$y is worth gold LOL! The amount of dumb questions and conversation with women is enough to drive me away. I get that enough from my own mother. Don't need a second one.
50 ReplyPerhaps a lot of guys have been burned before, or something under the surface is causing them to be apprehensive? I know that a large portion of guys don't know how to talk to girls. Regarding the bad experiences, girls that act mean might not represent the majority, but they are enough to paint an image in a guy's head so that it makes him reluctant in the future. The situation I noticed a lot back in high school specifically was when a guy was encouraged to make his interest known, only to be labeled as a 'creep'.
100 ReplyHahahahaa! Darling PLEASE! Do not confuse fear with respect...
Your GreatGranmother,Grandmother and Mother fought long and
hard to get You equal rights,Now You have them,and we respect them :)
also please consider the changes that have happened in the legal system
due to this,i.e. literature of law's.
for example, a male can be charged with stalking,a female cannot...
a male can be charged with domestic violence,a female cannot...
and the list goes on and on including almost all law's written since
1978.
So sorrowed to inform You," the ball is in Your court and it is Your
turn to serve!"131 ReplyWell you want to put yourself in my situation and try and ask a woman out? Try waking up in the morning and 'growing some balls and approach women', when your depressed and have panic attacks around people. Good luck with that...
Ive had nothing but rejection as experiences in my life - that's it, not one success. The only times I've ever gone out with a woman, was either it was a blind date, a pity date or the woman actually asked me out. So I figure if anyone would want to go out with me, they'll ask. If not, I'm not even going to go there, because from my experience it creeps people out, I find out they are already taken and distance themselves from me, or it offends them.100 ReplyMost guys don't think about things like whether a girl is desperate or just wants sex . If an average guy is approached by a girl they are attracted to, they are happy just to be able to talk to them.
The reason guys are afraid to approach girls is because most of them play stupid head games with us and try to make it seem like they're not interested when they are and other stupid B.S. like that. Well, guess what? If a girl starts acting that way to me, I move on to the next girl. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.
Women need to stop with all the games if they want this to change. If you like a guy and you think he might like you. Why don't you step up YOUR game a little bit? At least meet us 1/3rd of the way there! Is that too much to ask? Throw a couple random friendly smiles his way out of the blue... Let him catch you looking at him... Anything!
\rant71 Reply- +1 y
" the trick is to decide which one you want and then try to make it seem like it is his idea"
thats what women are told to do. NNOT tell you they like u. most guys think it makes her look desperate.
I would not bother trying to trick a person, or with anyone who thinks being straightforward is desperate, but maybe many people go with it.
I'm not afraid of rejection, but I have come to a point where I expect it. And if I know I'm going to be rejected, why on earth would I put myself out there and approach a girl/make a move? It's simply not worth my time to get my hopes up and have them dashed over and over again. There are more valuable things I can do with my time then get rejected by girls. If a girl were to ask me out, I might go out with her, but I would be suspicious of her motives. I'm probably doomed to be single forever because of this (and it frustrates me daily) but it is what it is.
71 Reply- +1 y
its kind of a paradox, because they absolutely won't approach us.
Anonymous(36-45)+1 yIt is hard to make a move nowadays because girls have so many new ways to let a guy down. It has come to the point where no matter what, it seems that a guy can do nothing to get a girl to like them unless the girl likes the guy first.
So, from my perspective, I can hit on 50 girls who WOULD be interested in me, but by my hitting on them, it tells them I like them. Since they know that I ALREADY like them, they lose interest in me.
So if I wait for a girl to initiate interest, it puts me in the drivers seat so that I can ACTUALLY do something about my interest.
So unless the girl shows some sign early on, there is little reason to pursue a girl.
That is unless you are like an 11 on a scale from 1-10. That is what all girls are waiting for nowadays apparently.127 Reply- +1 y
well yea. All girls want the same guy, and aren't willing to compromise at any level
They ALL want the Orlando Bloom of the group...they ALL want the one alpha male, and will not consider anything less.
And it doesn't matter which girl. She could be chubby, thin, pretty, average, ugly, etc...they all will chase the same guy, and not settle for any other guy
Opinion Owner+1 yamen lockjaw
Opinion Owner+1 yLockjaw, you should write a book about this topic, every girl wanting the same guy.
We can co-author it actually! I have always wanted to write a book about dating and make this at least a chapter of it.
We can call the book,
"The girl Problem: How woman ruin their own love life and the dating scene"- +1 y
SOOO NOT TRUE... a girl wants someone who will make her laugh and really.. it isn't that hard... yea being with the alpha male is cool but he is usually the most cocky! I don't go for the "alpha" male my heart goes to the one who can I can laugh with... honestly. :) and if pay attention... some very attractive females are with some guys who you would NEVER think they'd love... its likewise with some guys...
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plus they like jerks
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well they're naturally attracted to the loudest and most obnoxious jerks, so why bother trying.
Opinion Owner+1 ythis is why I plan to find a girl who has already been broken by bad guys. I am going to find her at a strip club knowing how to please a man and be all sexy.
She will e all hot and bothered and hurt and I wil save her. SHe will still be sexy!
+1 yNah. I have a hard time opening up to people after I get to know them, not so much at first glance. Though it's hard to talk to someone when you don't feel that you'd have any sort of connection with them. Like if you went to the same college as me, and you made eye contact with me more than once, I'd come up and say hi. After that first initial conversation, things become more relaxed, and if it came to it, I'd ask if you would want to go get coffee or something.
Cocky assholes are..well...assholes. I pity you and your friends. Though when you're around those type of people so much, we automatically assume those are the type of guys that you're into, and if we aren't like that, it just throws our confidence out the window.510 Reply- +1 y
Trust me.. I'm not into those type of guys. I go out with them because I think they're really nice or they're funny, confident, charming, good looking, etc at first just to find out later that they were lying to me or total players. I want a good guy with a bad side (if that makes any sense or not.) lol Like a nice guy who is fun, good looking, spontaneous, and loves sex. :P
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Well hey hey, move to IL and you got yourself a boyfriend! :P
But on a more serious note, it's hard to find specifics in people. Sometimes you have to look to other groups of people to find what you look for. Like artists, they're generally good people. Musicians, you know? They may be a bit awkward, but I've found some of the best people I've ever known that do something artistically. :] Give it a shot, let me know how it goes. - +1 y
Sure I'll move to Illinois! :P And I love musicians. Nah, my problem is the guys who seem to ask me out only want sex or not a real relationship. It's okay for a while but I'd love to find someone who'd stick around rather relationship or not. Or someone who's actually bold enough to ask me out and not play games. lol
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I ruined my reputation on campus for talking with jerks. I was just trying to be polite(I hate them) to them and not act stuck up, but the other guys saw me laughing and joking with them and now I'm nothing more than the campus skank. The nicer guys won't even talk to me. Jerks carry a price tag.
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KNOWN jerks carry a price tag, Jen. When everyone knows someone's a gigantic asshole, they assume that the people that go fleeting towards them are idiots. Misjudgment? Yeah. Though would stereotypes be stereotypes if they weren't true most of the time?
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Like I said I was just trying to be polite and not act like a snob. I actually loathe those types of guys. But my good manners cost me big time. My school is a small Catholic college. Just being seen with these guys earned me a bad reputation. Most of my classmates consider me to be Miss Skankasaurus, especially the guys. I don't think I deserved that.
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It's so tru tho It can happen by talking to the wrong people.
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yea that happened to me
- +1 y
Yup.
+1 yi get what your saying but I also feel the guys, rejection is a big thing & no one likes that, girls sometimes forget to make those little signals that give him the green light, if not they have no idea if your in a relationship or think they're ugly...so a nice smile his way or a look that lasts a bit long can give the guy the push he needs...but granted I know plenty of times I say to myself (damn it just come over & talk to me) but the guy won't & funny story was with someone I saw every time on my way to work via the train...did the whole staring thing & then I had enough so I grew some & plain & simple said "hey you got a girl?...he said no...so I said you got a number? & he gave it to me" hahahaha I was really nervous & was like shhh what if he thinks I'm crazy or if I get rejected...guys go through that every time...but yeah a lot of time if the guy had a better approach then ppssttt hey you...or the whistle then it would work better. hahahha
61 Reply
Anonymous(36-45)+1 yWhy would any guy want to torture himself asking out 100 girls only to be rejected by 90-95 of them and lets not forget like zagor mentioned sued/slapped/arrested/fired/scorned/kicked?
See where this fear comes from now?
That there is the soul crushing reason why guys stop trying, not to mention that most girls now days just aren't worth it with all the casual sex that they engage in ,which is a major deal breaker for most guys I know.
As for the second part If a girl ever asks me out I would put her above the rest but until then they are all the same, They sit on their ass and demand without putting in any effort.97 Reply
Opinion Owner+1 yExcept unlike guys San898 you don't ask anyone, so when you're not initiating and the good guys have given up on initiating the only remaining ones who will get any are the cocky users. Which inturn just prolong the cycle.
- +1 y
girls like jerks that's a fact!
- +1 y
thing is most girls go for the loud mouth jerks, which eliminates a lot of us right from the start. And girls won't ask us out so I don't really see a solution to the prob
- +1 y
@bysterhymen The thing is as a girl gets older and becomes a woman, ready to settle down, we stop going for the jerks... but by then the guys that would've looked at us a few years ago don't want to know because we're not nubile 20 year olds anymore. It's six of one and half a dozen of the other if you ask me!
Opinion Owner+1 y@confusedd0tcom Can you blame guys for wanting a girl who hasn't screwed around?
Why do good guys have to suffer alone through their 20's and early 30's until girls youth and looks fade while she bangs and screws every bad boy that she can find?
It's funny. Guys think girls who ask them out are desperate (I don't, I've been asked out a few times before but none of them were desperate or sluts) and from what I've seen in my time at school, university, church etc, when a guy approaches a girl or asks her out she thinks he only wants her for sex so she just rejects him. So it really is quite a predicament these days.
Also you have to remember that people who tend to get to know the person first and then ask them out tend to go into the friends zone a lot. By then they would not want to risk losing the friendship with someone.
I don't really approach girls anymore because I just feel like they think I only want one thing from them. So I don't bother.63 Reply- +1 y
I would have to disagree with the second part, If she's not attracted to you she'll friend zone or reject you no matter what you do or say.
- +1 y
Well yeah of course if she doesn't like you anyway she will always friend zone you. I'm just saying that if she does like you but the guy either doesn't get enough balls to ask her out or they guy isn't who she thought he was (maybe a ''nice guy'') then she will friend zone him. But also remember attraction can be built up over time as well. So she might start liking him after he's become friends with her.
- +1 y
Oh OK, I was thinking you were one of those guys that think we should ask for a random chick's digits after only talking to her for 5 minutes lol. But I would imagine that a girl would lose attraction after only a year or more of the guy not asking her out though.
+1 yLet's turn that question back on to you
Are YOU scared of rejection? Why is it that you won't simply ask a guy out that you like? You say you do it occasionally, but most of the time you wait.
You need to understand that guys fear the rejection just like you do. When you ask someone out, you put your self-esteem on the line. You must be prepared to be shot down, and you can't let it effect you. That is very hard.
Confident assholes is all your gonna get, because those guys do not give a fck. Good for them
Either ask the guys out you want, or shutup. This makes you a hypocrite, because you are unable to do the thing that you accuse guys of not being able to do76 Reply- +1 y
hey! you're just rude! she's just asking, besides she said she does it some times why would she have to do it ALL the time! and it looks to me that the only sex you're having lately is with your hand, to be this grumpy!
- +1 y
Ladoreyou87...what you just said is very rude, yet your calling me rude? Sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black
- +1 y
Haha, sounds like everyone's getting burned... XD
- +1 y
LOL.. he kind of has a point... women wanted to be equal and all that jazz... I'm not down playing this at all but I mean if you wanna dance... dance... I personally don't do it... sorry I have a crap load of guy friends and a huge guys girl... if something comes from me hanging out with my guys then so be it... I'm not gonna find mr right at a bar/club.. etc... those guys generally want ms. right now... :)
To your update, no way!
To the question in general; most Girls make it so hard for a guy to come up and start a conversation. Also when you are with a group of your lady friends they tend to make the decision of whether you can talk to the man who has approached. They do this by giving you attitude and evil eyes or even saying "lets go" when you are the one being approached. Part of this behavior is them looking out for you but a bigger chunk of it is jealousy. This kind of behavior is enough to stop any man approaching you.
If you want to be approached you need to meet half way. You need to make it a little more obvious that you are interested by looking over and smiling. Then try to get some time at the bar (or wherever you might be) by yourself to get a drink and give the guy an opportunity to come and talk to you by yourself. You'll be surprised how many more men will approach you by acting in this way. It's a two way street.53 Reply- +1 y
What do you mean meet them halfway?
what if a guy likes a girl that doesn't know he exists? - +1 y
If you read the paragraph as a whole then you will see what I mean about meeting halfway.
To your second point the question ansker wanted to know why men are afraid to approach women. I gave my opinion the way I see it. But to answer your question, the guy also has a responsibility ensure that that the girl in question is aware he exists. He needs to try and find ways to get in her line of sight and smile at her. then keep looking over once the eye contact has been made. . . .cont.. - +1 y
... and the smiles have been constant then it would be much easier for the guy to approach the girl. If the eye contact and smiles do not continue then guy/girl know that the other is not interested. This is obviously much easier for the guy than being publicly rejected and the Girl doesn't feel that she has to be civil as the speaking has been done with body language. people shoudl learn to read body language and others should learn not to cover theirs up.
Hope this clears things up?
+1 yGirls get that impression of me, cause I am dating someone and won't cheat I guess. but than again when I was single, I wanted to analyse a girl before I approached her, due to the fact that there is a lot of girls on pills that use us men for rides to the trailer park, and bum money for pills. (I'm not afraid in the I'm shy and can't talk way) its more like (better be careful, if she's a pill head she will never leave me alone way.) and another part of it is, well every since 1998 all the trends, styles and music sucked in the mainstream. and I would rather have an old-school goth chick that likes metal, than a typical preppy that is into the hip-hop scene. so I am a bit anti-social. I know that ist not your fault that pill heads messed up the guys approached girls days, but they way things are getting you might have to approach us and let us know "hey, I'm not a druggie! how are you? lol.
50 ReplyWhen you think about a lot of people fear public speaking so much that they would rather die then having to do it. That is a huge sociological impression on something very simple as a speech. So, it is not to hard to fathom that asking some one out would be a similar daunting task.
If you are a type of person that does not give off any signs of interest to someone they will be the fence on whether or not to ask you out. So, if you do not want to ask a guy out try to give some sign of being interested if you want that person to make the first move.
Also in this day and age, it also more acceptable in our open society to have girls ask guys out.40 Replyrejection is usually only a problem if the man has been hurt at a younger age or repeatedly throughout there growth into a adult
of course they shouldn't dwell on the past
but when we see women and how grown and possibly stuck up they could be
we fear for history repeating itself
so it would just be better if the women would approach us shy guys
cause they are important to us and we don't wanna come on in the wrong way
plus most women are kinda out there with the whole material thing and we get want we want and guys should pay for us and do all the work and so on and on
im not saying there all like that I'm sure there are plenty of pretty humble girls but I just can't ever tell
so I say we should both as genders be mutual and share the burden of having to start things up40 Reply
+1 ySometimes is because of money. If you a have a car, money to go out and your own private place to bring her back, then nothing is stopping you; but many guys these days don't have a car, or maybe they live with parents or they just don't have enough money to go out on a regular basis, so they get afraid girls will get dissapointed.
102 ReplyWhy are so many women so harsh and cruel with rejections. Why do so many women these days play men like yo yos and tear their hearts out and stomp on them and try to essentially collect possies of guys they string along. Women these days seem to consider a guy showing interest a sign of weakness on their part and despite what the movies may girls these days may find romance entertaining but sexually repulsive. So it really is best to not chase a girl anymore, best to let them come to me
184 Reply- +1 y
Amen Dude, A fu(king men!
- +1 y
Dude, right on. I've actually started to feel better since I wrote off chicks. Maybe some years down the road I'll feel differently but for now...what did Carly Simon Say? "I haven't got time for the pain"!
+1 yI kinda have this problem. There are actually quite a few guys that do make the moves on me, but unfortunately I'm just not interested in them. There is one guy that I'm actually interested in, but he doesn't seem to be into me. I want to ask him out, but I'm scared of rejection too. I understand what you mean guys. There are so many things that go through my mind...
1. What if I'm not pretty enough?
2. What if he doesn't like girls to make the first move?
3. What if I'm not his type?
4. If he was interested, he would have at least come over and talk to me... :(
Ugh... annoying.32 Reply- +1 y
I can definitely see how that is confusing. I don't even know why girls do that. But you probably dodged a bullet with that girl. She's probably bipolar. lol
Because the fact is, if you get attached to a girl you're pursuing, you have your feelings, but if they don't return them you take a major hit because you were starting to get attached ("nice guy"). But if you cut your feelings and just play the game you'll be confident because you don't care what they think, and when you get a girl you won't have feelings for them, so you just get sex ("asshole").
Everyone loses and that's the game of love.80 Reply
Anonymous(30-35)+1 yIn my case, it's not that I'm afraid to approach or make a move, but that I'm not attractive. To date, I know of one girl that has ever been attracted to me at all. I have lots of female friends and I've done plenty of asking out, and the only girl I've dated was the one that asked ME. I'm more than willing to make a move, and I don't fear women, try to manipulate them, or try to use them for sex. I'm just not attractive, so there's no point.
Here's a fun paradox:
Guy approaches a girl and asks for a number/date: too forward/creepy
Guy tries to get to know a girl before asking for a date: friend
Hot guy approaches a girl and asks for a number/sex: confident/sexy
It really does come down to looks and approach more than anything else. It might not keep a girl around, but you can't get in the door without it.62 Reply- +1 y
It's usually not about looks. And if so, sorry. Do you want to be with someone who is willing to sacrifice happiness for a visual? Yeah, I'm into attractive men as well and yet, oh wonder, the ones who got me really interested where introverts, not stunningly handsome men. I'd say average looking. Perhaps my weiring has been messed with. Someone call a technician, please! ;)
I really hate to say it but the reason so many guys are the cocky a**holes are because that's the most effective way for a guy to get some ass. Or sadly to even land the girl that they like these days. We've been saying this forever but the truth really is, good guys are a dying breed. Check out sites like doubleyourdating.com that's the new breed of guys that you're going to get surrounded by. Obnoxious jackasses that follow a multi step formula to getting a chick in bed. The worst part of all is the system actually works, seriously chicks really fall for this system. My suggestion would be to try initiating the conversation or a date with a guy, sometimes if you want a quality guy you are going to have to put in the work. What do you have to lose? Except a lifetime of failed relationships with one f*cking meat head after another.
20 Reply
+1 yI'm a very introverted guy and have some self-consciousness issues, so I tend to be quite hesitant with being open with my feelings towards a girl. I don't necessarily need them to make the first move, but would like some sort of hint that they're actually interested (which I'm sure I'm hypocritical about since they probably want the same of me and I'm often too shy to make such hints). I can't speak for every guy, but this is something I've actually been trying to get better about (though, since I have decided to do this, I haven't really found any girls I wanted to pursue...ironic, yes?).
20 ReplyGenerally, the guys who are less likely to ask women out are fairly shy, and from your description, sound like the type of men you're attracted to emotionally. I, myself, am one of those kinds of guys. We have been hurt by women many times in the past and as a result, have lost a great deal of trust towards them. Dave Chappelle hit the nail right on his head I one of his stand-up routines when he said, "Chivalry is dead, and women killed it."
90 Reply
Anonymous(36-45)+1 yWell, most girls do a horrible, horrible, horrible job of making a guy feel comfortable, making him feel that they want him. They look at a guy who's nervous and rather than give him a shot they just screw with his head and laugh about it. That's the biggest problem.
140 Reply1.1K opinions shared on Flirting topic. Rejection has it's limits. There's only so much a man can take. If a man is capable of being turned down numerous times, and still having enthusiasm to move on to the next rejection, then more power to him. But there are not many men like that. We only make make a move when there are clear signals that we will not be turned down or when there's enough alcohol in our bloodstream.
81 Reply- +1 y
excellent point littletad
I already answered this question many times in other questions, check here for a couple of possible background influences on why men are complete p****** link
To add to it, there's a lot of unconscious "programming" that happens everyday growing up that makes men shoot themselves down before they try. Only some few people break through those societal pressures and live unihibited to go for what they want and do what they want.12 Reply- +1 y
big deal, so what?
this crap started in the earlly 90s with all the Politically Correct crap. Its gotten worse...
I have to listen to men my own age whine like little sisies about how dad or mom yelled at them when they were little. Gez, get over it already.
yeah, some (most) young men are insecure, and so afraid of a "no" they sit there ad watch life go by. This goes for ANYthing, not just dating... go out there, and FAIL a hundred times, and then you will start to succeed...
a lot of women seem to me like they fall for the "act" of a loud, cocky A-hole...
"confident" and "cocky" are two separate things, but a lot of women can't tell the difference, I don't think...11 Reply- +1 y
> started in the 90s
The 1790s that is. Women rightly wanted to change their status and balance of power with men. Places where they are still little more than reproductive service robots now rightly seem arcane.
Trouble for some women is, they have acquired from some guy's pov too much equality and in some areas superiority (family law etc) which causes men not to act in some of the "traditional ways" that women enjoyed.
Be careful what you ask for, you might get it!
+1 yFirst, if you don't like that men aren't asking you out maybe you need to take some initiative yourself.
Second, you should make yourself more approachable. You'll scare off a lot of guys by having a 'bitch face' and acting unattainable. The only guys you'll get attention from are the douchebags.72 Reply- +1 y
Bitch face and acting unattainable? what do you mean? lol you don't know me.
- +1 y
Don't get defensive. Lots of women, maybe even yourself, put on this aura of unapproachability and then wonder why decent guys don't ask them out.
I know all about this because my girlfriend does it.
+1 yBecause we grew up under the zero tolerance policies of the baby boomers with big mouths and a short fuse. When it comes to relationships they also kept tight lips, which got a lot of teens pregnant I might add. Truth is men growing up in the Y generation don't have the same confident role models to tell them to man up and talk to her already. Men today like myself have more insecurities that follow from not knowing if we measure up to the standard of G.I. Joe the plumber and Fabio prince of questionable straightness.
02 Reply- +1 y
Well but you have high standards too. Like you always expect girls look like Megan Fox, Angelina Jolie, Scarlet Johanson and etc. You most ot the times say that some of us looks cute and that personality has matter but if you really involved only by most beautiful and common girls. This is not personally to you but I decided to ask you because of your answer.
- +1 y
What do you think you know of me? What do you know of my burdens? I don't have high standards. Sure I answered that damn what if question about my ideal girl but that's pointless fun. The only standard that I have is that my girlfriend works as hard as I already do to be healthy and look attractive. It's a two way street. And those dolls, you give them too much dignity by calling them women.
in regards to your update:
Yes, you are correct, most guys do do not like to be asked out. That messes with general roles and can feel like mom telling them what they should do. Frankly, no matter what, I will immediately loose any interest in someone if they try to ask me out.
For sure, over confident cocky assholes suck, but a little bit of cocky confidence shows that a man knows what he wants, not just taking what he can get. Perhaps you may want to ask yourself are you being to quit to judge the guys that ask you out.02 Reply- +1 y
you have such deep insight
- +1 y
Hey aren't you that dude who shot all those people in Arizona Saturday?
Yes men are afraid of rejection and in this new dating world (the only one I know). Woman have more options. This means that men have more competition and rejection means that some other guy is better than you. Really this is all bullsh*t because instead of letting a girl reject you or more often not guys choose to reject themselves over and over again every time they think about talking to someone they are interested in or asking a acquaintance on a date.
The cocky guys are cocky because they realized that even you who hates them will entertain them because they are the only guy that will approach you so they get it in there head that woman love them and there the sh*t.
That's my personal thoughts hopefully on topic. Now time for bed :D00 Reply- 899 opinions shared on Flirting topic.
+1 yGender differences are disappearing and the idea of men being the ones to initiate everything is dying out.
As far as the type of guy, if you study people, you will see that there IS a link between the selfish nature of jerks/assholes and the boldness it takes to approach a woman. Generally they seem to go hand-in-hand, with few exceptions. I advise studying that psychological aspect if you truly want the answers you seek.61 Reply- +1 y
What? No way. We don't see girls as being all that much different from us. Approaching a guy and asking him out isn't desperate. In fact it makes it easier to respect you. Earns you bonus points in our book. Don't trust the advice you hear from Cosmopolitan. =)
+1 yThis is like the third question I'v answered about this, but I'm extremely shy. I just assume that if a girl is really interested in me, she would do something about it. If I text a girl that I like and she doesn't really carry it on, I let her choose whether or not she wants to talk anymore. Just my personality.
60 Reply602 opinions shared on Flirting topic. 1) The most obvios is the fear of rejection.
2) Not knowing whether you like to her or not. Girls play too many games with strangers at first glance.
3) A waste of time and money, it has happen to me countless times. Yes I get her number but 4 weeks later she dumps me.
4) The fear of thinking you are not good enough. You are too ugly, boring, short, fat, what have you.60 Reply
+1 yIt boils down to rejection.The same reason girls don't bother to ask a guy out or the same reason a girl may be shy around their interest. No one wants to be rejected.Girls asking guys out does not equate to desperation,sex etc. It does equate to boldness and being awesome! I've spoken to guys who loved the idea of a girl asking them out!
50 Reply
+1 yNo. I always ask the girl but she's always attracted to that older, asshole who's a few inches taller then me. I feel like girls these days aren't into nice friendly guys so approaching them is just a waste of time.
90 Reply
+1 yI wouldn't say afraid in my case, I don't ask out or talk too every single cute girl I run into,so I test them, I'll talk to a girl once,next day I won't say anything,but observe how she reacts,next day I'll talk to her and keep going on like that for a bit. If they act like they don't give a damn,then I don't give a damn :). If they play hard to get or act aloof then I move on, I have enough crap going on in my life,last thing I need is a insecure little girl to add to it.
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