Are submissive men screwed in dating, or am I just being irrational?

[Anonymous]

I'm asking this because of my personal experiences on here. I have said in previous questions that I prefer to be submissive in my relationships (I'm straight). But in so many other people's questions, I get answers from women saying that they prefer for the man to lead. To make matters worse, even some DOMINANT women want dominant men! And to be honest, it does leave me insecure at times, like I'll never have a good and long-lasting relationship unless I become dominant.

What's stupid is that I've had experiences that say otherwise. I had a fling with a Brazilian tomboy who was dominant. One of my followers here is a submissive man who's happily married, and another follower of mine is a girl who's dominant. She asked for advice on her habit of kicking boys in the nuts. I gave her advice, and she followed me. And one of my online BFFs has a younger sister (She is a year older than me) who is always dominant in relationships and enjoys it. She even calls me "Puppy" as an affectionate gesture and called me handsome, despite being 5'6!

I know I sound really irrational, but sometimes it just seems like men will never have a good relationship if they want the woman to lead it. So many women want the man to lead--even the dominant ones. The ones who want to wear the pants in relationships seem so rare. It seems like if you don't at least want equal power in a relationship, you're doomed to either be single or get cheated on. So AM I being stupid, or am I right to feel so insecure?

Are submissive men really screwed in dating/relationships?

[DrunkAss]

It seems difficult to choose your desired mate if you leave it up to them to step up to the plate and make all the moves. Of course, that might beg the question of whether women are in that category -- but we have a sort of established custom that sort of gives the two sexes some sort of balance of power... like a woman dropping her handkerchief, or passing her phone number, or flirting to make her desires known... and the man responding. We don't have such established customs and rituals when the man is the one in what we might have historically considered the woman's shoes -- and so I think men in this category will find it tough to attract women, and especially the ones they want.

[DrunkAss]

The tricky thing with the way I see this is that even a woman who is of average or better looks who is reasonably sociable and doesn't stay locked in some tight-knit social circle or stays locked in a room all day might have her share of suitors that she can choose from, even if she's submissive. Guys usually don't have that luxury of having many female suitors unless they're like rockstars. So it's really tough as I see it to hope to be very successful as a submissive type of guy unless he's really lucky.

[DrunkAss]

What exactly is your reluctance towards taking on a more dominant role though? What is your conception of dominance? I find some guys think of it as bossy, leaning towards abusive. Mine is "protector". You step up to situations to protect people. You take responsibility. In a dance, you lead the woman and she follows your footsteps but you also have the responsibility that if she trips, you must catch her and protect her from falling. Maybe she is perfectly capable of catching herself, but I see it as a good gesture... and I think the majority of women respond that way -- to the good intentions of a man being revealed through initiative, and his willingness to protect, and solve problems where people can't agree on a solution. It doesn't have to be ugly to be dominant. And there's plenty of grey zones in between -- for compromise, working things out together.

[Asker]

I know that a manly man can be a good leader. I'm just more passive and laid back, and I have no interest in fulfilling male gender roles. Honestly, my tastes in women make that last thing pretty damn obvious

[DrunkAss]

It is kind of confusing to me. But you seem really nice and open-hearted -- good spirit. It is just so in contrast to what I hold dear -- and what I strive to be (and fail sometimes). But all my experiences, although biased, suggest that it is very hard to have a selection pool if you lay back too much. Girls aren't that forthcoming for most of us guys, and the few that are often expect us to sort of take the reins at some point. With the girls I liked most, including my now-wife, I won them over by taking big actions... with my wife, it involved jamming an emergency stop button on our first date and pulling her close for a kiss. I don't know any other way to win girls -- at least without being way better-looking or having some irresistable charm.

[Asker]

Your point?

[DrunkAss]

I don't really have one except that I think it might be sorta tough -- might need to expose yourself to lots of social situations and see if a girl steps up. I don't really try to make points anymore. Just share. Might have been all my experiences dating women with exes. I never saw the point of making a point. The better goal seems to be to lean about each other -- like I learn about you, you learn about me -- we share and we know where we're at. Seems to work well with girls -- now that I have this style, I struggle more with guys. :-D

[DrunkAss]

[...] Might have been all my experiences dating women [including] exes.
* learn

[Asker]

So try to taoe charge in some situations?

[DrunkAss]

I do not know this "taoe" one -- my bad. I tried to look up but maybe got the wrong definitions. English isn't my first language. and I am pretty bad with the slang

[Asker]

"Take." I meant to say "take."

[DrunkAss]

Oh, my bad -- I should have recognized that but I thought it was slang! Well, I think there's a spectrum for this stuff -- not black and white, you know. But you see a pretty girl and I think it helps if you talk to her, and you're clicking, to sort of control the situation -- arrange things, make things happen on your own (assuming she agrees). Then maybe you can situate yourself in an arrangement as she gets to know you better, and you her, that works out -- and maybe it might even work with her as lead and you her noble supporter/follower. But you got that sort of social bias to overcome initially.

[DrunkAss]

I think for a very laid back type though who wants to sort of mind his own, find an inspiring leader, that sort of thing... maybe best bet is to seek lotsa friends -- girls and guys -- and you go on adventures, meet new people, have fun... not so different from good stuff for doms. But maybe especially so for sub -- because you're counting on the girl sort of taking over at some point. You need lots of exposure -- so you need to hang out with lots of people, including new ones.

[utterlyconfused11]

I think the red pill would do you some good my guy
im starting on the red pill as we speak and I got to tell you, a lot of it makes sense. despite what you might be thinking about it right now just look into it. a lot of what they talk about isn't even dating related its mostly self improvement. one thing that is big there is something my aunt said to me literally last week is that you build yourself and your career and your assets up first and the women will follow. improve yourself little by little day by day and then you will find a happier relationship

[Asker]

But a lot of those women will want you to lead, which isn't attractive to me. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[utterlyconfused11]

thats just biology my friend. its the way that it has been for since humans have been a thing, its the way it is in almost all of the animal kingdom. men lead. that's just something that you will need to work on I guess. is it possible to find a woman to take the lead, yeah, but is it likely? it will likely be a couple month relationship that neither of you two end up happy in because like you said even the ones who are dominant want a man to lead. unless you go find some radical feminist who will emasculate you at every turn and hates men for being born men and not women you won't be finding a girl who wants to lead

[Cherokeehp]

Eh there are dominant men and dominant women. The problem is that most gender roles encourage men to be dominant and women to be submissive and discourage them from deviating from their assigned roles. Some women with truly dominant personalities are taught to behave in a submissive manner so they don’t come off as intimidating or emasculating to men. But there are dominant women who are true to themselves and desire a more submissive leaning partner.

[Espresso-Grande]

Not at all. I know plenty of dominant woman who prefer a submissive man. So it's not unrealistic or irrational to think you're dateable.

[Asker]

Seriously?

[Espresso-Grande]

Yes. One of my cousins come to mind. She prefers a submissive guy , because she has a very dominant personality. Her husband is laid-back and prefers her to take charge. They have a happy marriage, because they're total opposites.

A woman I work with is also married to a submissive man. She has a dominant personality too.

While a lot of women prefer dominant guys, there's also a lot of women out there who prefer submissive guys. So don't lose hope in finding a woman who likes a submissive guy

[Asker]

Just asking, but are they more likely to be dominant if they are tomboyish? I knew two girls who were like that, and one of my followers is a dominant tomboy with a girly side. Finally, there's that married male follower I brought up.

[Espresso-Grande]

No. I wouldn't say so. My cousin isn't tom boyish. There's many femanine feisty dominant woman out there who prefer submissive guys

[bamesjond0069]

If you're so submissive why don't you just let your girl cheat on you though if thats what she decides to do?

But otherwise you're right, nobody wants a beta simp like you. Why would they when they can get a dominant man? Thats the key, try dating girls who can't get a dominant man, like a fat older single mom. Those kind of women are interested in marrying men like you. Although there is still a high chance of cheating obviously.

[WesBrewer]

I see it that way, I would say that yes, submissive men are screwed, unless you become the slave of a demonitrix or something in BDSM, but you shouldn't do that.

[Asker]

So I should try to be dominant?

[WesBrewer]

yes, try to become the leader in things, read books on becoming a leader, maybe join the military as an officer, they will teach you how to lead.

[fxllenone]

A lot of women will tell you that it's okay to be a submissive man, or that there are many women who like submissive men. That is a lie, and it's very sad that women will tell a lie like that and play with a man's emotions. It is what it is though, I guess.

Submissive men are simply men with low self-esteem, and dominant women are simply women with control issues. So the man isn't actually submissive, and the woman isn't actually dominant, they are both damaged.

[Reemaa]

You are right to feel insecure. That doesn’t mean you will not get a chance at all, but you will have more hard time when compared to dominant men

[Asker]

I know.

[Barbaric]

So things haven't been going so well with the girl you were talking to when we last spoke?

[Asker]

No, I know what's happening regarding her brother. He's currently having problems due to paying a bill going wrong, so he has little internet access.

Plus, his sister and I didn't have enough time to build up an actual connection romantically. I'm gonna try contacting her more once I'm able to speak to her brother.

[jasco]

Most submissive men are screwed unless they can switch between the two or find a person who is willing to be there so called master

[Juxtapose]

I'm a switch but finding female doms is hard man xD I feel your pain.

[Anonymous]

dating and relationships r the least of ur worries, ur screwed in life

[Asker]

How?

[Opinion Owner]

because a man needs to be dominant to be successful. It is the natural way. You are only submissive because you got fucked over being raised incorrectly. Start stepping into your manhood