A successful step forward: A follow up to a previous MyTake on equality.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

2 months ago I wrote a MyTake (Another step forward: From walking in the shadow of men to being equals) about some of the discriminatory practices women faced around the world when it came to things like clothing choices and sexual pressures faced in the work place. Unfortunately, that was met with a lot of derision from certain sectors of this site who dismissed my article as frivolous and "first world problems". First off, I am pretty certain these are not just first world problems considering the requirements for women in some countries due to some religious beliefs that force women to completely hide themselves whether they believe in the religion or not. Second, it's super easy to say that when you are on the side trying to enforce it. This take was still getting responses as of two days ago and I fully anticipate I will get more after this one posts. For those who didn't get a chance to read or just simply didn't want to, I'd like to just post a couple of those posts in here for a moment.

"Love this first world Problems whinging whilst the Islamic World straight up stones women for getting raped. " - Ryfyle

Yeah, that's kind of the point. We want better treatment for women everywhere not just here in the US/UK. I think a lot of people tend to forget that the push for feminism is for women everywhere, not just in our immediate areas.

In fairness, most Americans learn geography by coloring maps at Denny's so they tend to think America is all that exists.

"I'm totally for equality and female empowerment however some of the "movements" like "me too" and " Cancel culture" go too far and it really just looks like sexism on men. For example most of my friends are girls and I commonly use the word sweetie and there's never been an issue before and then suddenly a few months ago I got harassed at a cafe I regularly go to though I usually go there at a different time and know everyone who works there at that time" - Anonymous

MeToo and cancel culture are two completely different things. MeToo was about standing up to the sexual assault and abuse both men and women faced in their lives. Cancel Culture on the other hand is mob justice unfortunately. Now, don't get me wrong, sometimes people get punished for their unacceptable behavior, but that isn't cancel culture. That is just suffering a penalty for your outlandish behavior.

Side note: Just because you and your friends are ok with it, doesn't mean everyone is. My wife and I joke around and call each other bitch as a term of endearment but that doesn't mean I am going up to the cashier at the grocery store and referring to her as one. There used to be a lot of "harmless words" that men used in the workplace that made women uncomfortable and now it just doesn't fly. If it is a cutesy nickname, just assume you should keep it to people you know and not a random stranger.

"Here ya go, sweet cheeks. How much extra to add your phone number to the receipt?"

There were many more posts ranging from positive, to skeptical, to just downright rude and vulgar. So why am I bringing this up now? Well, imagine how happy I was when I ran across this little update.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/01/sport/handball-uniform-regulations-spt-intl/index.html

Hey! We're back and soon to be with 50% more uniform fabric!

For those unwilling to click the link, let me provide a cliffs note version for you. The Norwegian women's handball team took a stand against the uniforms they were forced to wear and, with an outpouring of support, the IHF changed the rules. Women are now allowed to wear tank tops and shorts like the men. Now, there is a little caveat that irks me a bit in the new rule that "female athletes must wear short tight pants with a close fit" that is not listed in the men's requirements, but hey, progress is progress. Then again, I know a lot of you are disappointed the IHF doesn't have the same tight short requirements for guys.

Insert image and joke about male bulge here because I am not getting anywhere near it.

Now, if you weren't ready to rage before about an article about a handball uniform, let me push you the rest of the way with this next topic. Kudos to women standing up for themselves when it comes to men regulating their clothes and actually enacting change. It is time for a bigger battle when it comes to here in the US, but the rest of the world is not excluded.

I swear, first clothes and now it's gonna be about women wearing heels...wait, she is going to talk about ABORTION? The hell?!

There is a massive push by right wing groups to limit a woman's choice to her own body and what she can do with it. Listen, I get it. I am against abortion myself, but I am not trying to push my own beliefs on to another person by legal methods. You can be religious or have non religious reasons to be opposed and it isn't going to matter. The truth is, you can't legislate when people can have sex. You can't in good conscious legislate what someone does with their bodies unless they are a public health threat. You anti-vax people better be on board with the 'My body, my choice' train here too or stop shouting the phrase out like a verbal ward against needles. I support your right not to get it, no matter what my personal thoughts about it the same as I do for those who seek abortion.

For those of you pretending to care about the embryo/fetus, cool, donate your money and time to raising those kids. If you want to come back with "keep your legs closed", please refer back to the last paragraph about trying to legislate people having sex. For my religious friends, if you truly believe in your maker, then let them judge what happens to the women who elect to have an abortion.

If you ACTUALLY want to stop it from happening, limit the social programs that pay people to have kids. Stop letting people treat children like paychecks from the government.

"We named our son Anthony Thomas Miller, or ATM for short, because of all the cash withdrawals he's getting from the government."

In the end, the main point is this. Nobody should be making laws for what a legal adult, male or female, can do with their body. I hope more and more women stand up for themselves, even if you are against abortion, that's fine. Stand up for your own body and refuse to let the government tell you what you can and can't do with it. Right now it is abortion, but that can EASILY slip into other territories where we are being told what we are allowed or not allowed to do.

I am proud of the women who stood up against sexism in clothing restrictions. I am proud of the ones who stood up to speak out about sexual predators. I am proud of the ones standing up to defend their bodies from uninformed politicians. Finally, I am proud of the men who also stand up in support of the women in their lives who know the ramifications of allowing things like this to continue. The fight for equality comes by fighting equally together. This isn't a fight to be better than one another. It is a fight to stand side by side with one another as equals.

[Andres77]

Well said.
Lots of progress but still lots further to go.
I've got two daughters that I want as empowered as possible. One listens to me and the younger one blames me for all the evil done to women throughout all of history.
Those militant feminists that just want to bash all men aren't helping anyone.
I was raised the 6th of 6 kids. Single mom, absent dad, abusive and alcoholic grandfathers and grandmothers that sacrificed for her kids. I've got sisters and now two daughters.
I love them and respect them all.
I know that I formed some ideas that were not respectful when I was younger. I look at old TV shows I grew up with and realize there were some vile ideas and attitudes common on primetime nightly shows. I had to put all that shyt where it belonged, in the garbage.
We live in the world together, a cooperative effort is needed. It's better than at anytime in history (culturally dependent) but we still need to fix things here and yes, many cultures worldwide are exceedingly harsh to women.
I'm in it, with my family.
Just keep on driving forward.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I'm hoping the younger one comes around. Our only way forward is together, not fighting against each other.

I'd recommend putting it this way to her, would she want to be punished for things her sister did just because she is also a girl? Of course not. So we shouldn't blame and punish all men for the actions of some either. Call out those who do wrong. Show them a better way of doing things. But praise needs to be given to those who aren't like those seeking to keep us down.

[Andres77]

I'll keep that in mind.
Thanks

[Hallo626262]

Lol your Younger daughter is so extremely dumb. How pathetic.

[Andres77]

@Hallo626262 watch it boy or I'll put you over my knee.

[Ryfyle]

@ez-bri-z Quote me an not even mention me? Well that's a bit fucked up. I say up the ante on Men's Olympic uniforms and just go Classic Greek. This is a serious Metric to consider as things as simple as shoes could give a synthetic edge. Take out all the extra variables and get a raw measure of human performance.
Secondly, a countries citizens are the nations assets. More Biological Debt Sponges are need to maintain I psychotic demand for infinite GDP Growth. Merely a thought no one considers.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Uh I did mention you, unless you meant @ you which in that case, no. I didn't want to presume you wanted to be tagged.

I'm sure that people would love naked Olympics but corporate sponsors and a lot of angry parents would probably say no lol

[Ryfyle]

It feels like talking behind somebody's back.
There's enough space to brand a Nike logo on any Track and Field Athlete, whats more Human Exploitation amongst Corporations.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Think of it this way, it was interesting enough for me to quote 😊

[SecretsofKB]

I love the distinction you made between "Me Too" and "Cancel Culture." I think that distinction is often overlooked and the two are lumped together. Lumping them together takes the focus off of the actual point of the "Me Too" movement.

I really think you're right. This can't be fixed by one gender only.

Also, loved the bit about how us Americans learned our geography!

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Thank you so much! Yeah this definitely is a thing we should all work on together. Everybody is stronger when we work together.

Also, I send that joke from the state of Texas where education is optional at times apparently. Lol

[Mia_MadisonOF]

Right on!! I feel like we’re all entitled to our own opinions and just because we disagree with someone else’s stance doesn’t mean we have to be negative towards them or voice our disagreement. I also believe that, sure there are far more pressing concerns for women around the world, but it’s like you said. These little steps pave the way for tomorrow’s women and little girls!! ❤️

[Ez-Bri-Z]

100%!

Well said and thank you very much for taking the time to read the article.

[smølf]

As you know, the problem with abortion is, it's not about your body but the body of the unborn child. Both genders can choose to use birth control to avoid pregnancies, so outside of rape, there are no excuses besides carelessness and stupidity. It is the job of any government, to protect the innocent (meaning unborn babies) from thoughtless murder. This is why abortion is not about the woman's body and choice, but about the right of the unborn child. I do agree, there shouldn't be any, let's say Christian morals, enforced through legislation, but abortion is exceptional because it's about something else, it's about human rights. The right not to be killed for the sake of the parents or the state.
I do not pretend to care about the embryo/fetus, I do care, but about human rights, the right to not be killed. And no, it's not, me who should finance other people's sexual escapade or accept murder. It's the parents who should be paying for not using birth control, not me or others who should accept state-sanctioned murder.

About the subject of feminism and equality, you need to figure out what we are talking about here. It is equal rights or equity because it's a big difference.

I am a firm supporter of equal rights, but I am opposed to equity, we all have the right to be better than our fellow man, equity entrenches the right to be better than others by trying to equalize the outcome.

Equal rights are good and part of the constitution of the US, equality of outcome is a horrorshow.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

At least in the US, government funds (except Medicare and that's not even in all states) cannot be used for abortions.

Also in the US, while there is a such thing as fetal rights, they are legally not even recognized as a person. So at that point you are bringing morality into it.

If you want to protect a life, ensure you and your partner don't have an abortion.

If you want to protect life, then you can't just be worried about it before they are born. Forcing a kid to be born into an environment where it will be unwanted and mistreated to most likely continue the cycle with future generations. You can say adoptions are available but that isn't a guarantee either.

I have clearly been talking about equality. I'm not sure where your confusion stems from there. I do want to be eliminated from doing something simply based on the fact that I am a woman.

[smølf]

@ez-bri-z
"If you want to protect a life, ensure you and your partner don't have an abortion."
That's a start, but that does not how a law should work. Not killing is the bare minimum, but not allowing others to kill is mandatory as well. The key here, is this, is an unborn baby a separate human being, the fact is, yes, then comes the question of, when does human rights begin, by birth or at conception.

If by birth, killing a 9-month-old unborn baby is alright then. If not, then comes the question of when does it become a human life worth protecting?

"... then you can't just be worried about it before they are born. Forcing a kid to be born into an environment where it will be unwanted and mistreated..."
I agree, but this doesn't excuse murder. And the parents are responsible for their own kids, born as well as unborn. Unwanted can't be helped, mistreated however should not be tolerated under any circumstances.

"I have clearly been talking about equality. I'm not sure where your confusion stems from there. I do want to be eliminated from doing something simply based on the fact that I am a woman."
I support that 100%, the question only arises because feminists often make such claims as equality, and then bait and switch to equity (as in, equality of outcome), when they suggest policies.

Didn't read any other take than yes.

PS: Still rooting for you to choose, to approach the one true living God, although won't go there or push in any way, shape, or form.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Omg that was you in that debate with me?

😊

Hi!

[smølf]

Yes it was :)

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Thank you so much for that debate. It was wonderful and probably one of my favorites on this site to date. Im so glad I finally know who was on the other side of it

[smølf]

Yes, you do :)

I hope you get my point about abortion though. I agree to keep religion out of the states legislature, including allowing blasphemy, any kind of sexual immorality, profanities, etc.

God wants voluntary services, and we do have and should continue to have, the freedom of choice. As long as nobody innocent is hurt.

Abortion, however, oversteps the boundaries by making innocent victims. This is why, the abortion laws are not part of what I consider acceptable, it's obviously a lost cause here in Europe, but in the US these essential human rights may still have a small chance in some states.

Don't get me wrong, I do not believe abortion is wrong, and then don't care about the babies once born. Nor I am in favor of your liberal gun laws (however constitutional guaranteed). I do not understand the evangelicals pro-Trump/republican banter in the US, it makes little sense to me. In fact, from a biblical perspective, Christians should not spend time and energy on politics and should have a somewhat neutral political agenda.

Maybe you can explain to me, why so many Christians, including many Presbyterians, are pro-Trump/republicans?

[Ez-Bri-Z]

It's a different animal here I guess.

Republicans love to use the veil of religion to draw in that base because it is an easy market to manipulate. Very few actually practice what they preach.

For their followers, they talk about how they have moral superiority over "the blue team" (democrats). They create boogeymen from nothing and further drive a built in fear of the unknown into their voter base. They claim that anything they want is God's will. The more fanatical of them support someone like Trump and think he is either the second coming of Jesus here to rid the world of the Democratic Demons or they tolerate his actions just because he is on the red team and a vote for him will trigger the "woke" crowd.

Think about it this way, if you already have a person who is predisposed to believing in a God they've never seen and the fear of disobeying him, it's super easy to use that fear against them to say "if you don't support your republican candidate, then you are allowing the blue team to win and allowing Satan's will to spread" somehow implying those people are not Christians anymore. That fear gets them to show up and vote.

At the same time, they can still live up to all their own vices like adultery, rape/sexual assault, spousal abuse, drug/alcohol abuse and many different ways to fleece their followers of money. And, if they get caught? Well it is easy to beg forgiveness by saying, "I slipped, but my spouse and I are seeking help and have begged God's forgiveness".

[Ez-Bri-Z]

It's a playbook Republican voters fall for every single time until their own moral stances have been compromised to be ok with their side having these kinds of issues, but God forbid someone on the blue team does it. Then they demand people be fired and thrown in jail. They become the very thing they claim to hate, cancel culture.

It's a great playbook too because democrats do something very similar. Instead of religion as their shield as Republicans do, they use anti-religion as the sword. Once they get power though they become victims of their own success. Republicans hold a cult like power over their politicians and voters. They tend to normally vote together for fear that free thinking will put them on the outside looking in. Democrats pride themselves on being free thinkers and so when they get in office they tend to want to follow their own agendas and cause so much infighting that they let the Republicans sweep back through and further this country into a politically rigged race by gerrymandering maps and passing restrictive voter laws that favor their side heavily.

As far as I am concerned both Democrat and Republican politicians are the same thing dressed in different team colors. Manipulate the masses, get rich, and repeat next election cycle. There is no room for equality in either of their systems.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

As for abortion, morally I'm against it. I'd never get one of my own (I would like to believe that to be true even in the case of rape although that's easier to say when your body has decided it can't carry children anyway).

What I can do though is make a dispassionate argument for allowing it. Until a fetus/embryo can survive on it's own without being in the mother's womb and medically survive under it's own power, it is just an extension of the mother's body giving her full domain over that decision on what to do with it. If that baby can be taken from the womb and survive (even if in the NICU for a while) then it is it's own being and the mother has lost that level of dominion.

Feel free to call it murder if you'd like. It's not like I am even against some levels of murder. For example, I'm absolutely fine with medically assisted suicide being a thing. I see no point making someone suffer for months or years just because someone else is morally opposed to the idea of it.

[smølf]

@ez-bri-z
In my view, assisted suicide is a different beast. I consider suicide, a human right, and assisting a service, not murder.

As for abortion, the mother has no moral right to kill her offspring, no matter the age of the child. A newborn can't survive without the mother anyway, killing it early on won't make it any less evil.
The am 100% anti-abortion as birth control, however, I can live with abortion in certain medical conditions where the life of the mother is at stake or where the child can't even live on its own (a life with medical care to keep him/her alive from cradle to grave).

[smølf]

@ez-bri-z
It's not about the age of the child, but the reasons for killing it. However, when killing it, it should be before the child can feel pain and that's an issue in itself. Touch is the first sense to develop, with receptors present in the fetus face by week 8. However, it takes until week 12 for sensory receptors to develop in palms and soles, and it’s not until week 17 that receptors are present in the abdomen. However, the fetus still needs to develop a communication pathway to the brain. Before week 24 nerves aren’t typically developed enough to carry information to the spinal cord, and eventually, the brain’s cortex. The cortex that people perceive the feeling of pain.
The connection between the cortex and the thalamus, does not begin to develop until around week 23 of pregnancy. The consensus is that the fetal experience of pain likely becomes possible around the 23rd week, but it’s more of a progression than an instantly realized ability.

An Italian study published in the journal Pediatric Research in 2020 looked at 10 years of fetal pain studies and reached a similar conclusion. However, that study links the ability to feel pain to the produce stress hormones. Researchers note, “The fetus in the second half of pregnancy, in reaction to a potentially painful stimulus, produces stress hormones.”

So, based on available research, a fetus is likely able to start feeling some semblance of pain around the 23 week of pregnancy.

For this reason, I would be against any abortion beyond the 22 week, no matter the reason.

[smølf]

@ez-bri-z
I must admit Trump was a bit of a scare over here. Not saying Bidin is great, but Trump was... special.

What's surprised me about the Christian in the US loving Trump, is the fact he is also most antichrist himself. There are not many biblical principles Trump hasn't broken and breaks as frequently as he can.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Honestly I am perfectly fine with 22/23 weeks being a cut off if thats the compromise, barring health issues to the mother in a pregnancy that puts both life's at risk or if the baby will not be viable anyway. I cannot abide the 6 week number Texas puts in place because in reality that isn't even enough time to know your pregnant.

Yeah, like I said, people go blind when it comes to their team. They'll excuse any completely immoral behavior and in some cases even encourage it because "at least it isn't the other team in charge".

[DWornock]

Female genital mutilation which entails the partial or complete removal of all external sexual organs, and surgical closure of the vaginal orifice in Somalia and other countries is absolutely horrible, and having female athletes to wear skimpier clothing does not even come within 1% of being as bad.

I am surprised that you would make an issue of sporting outfits and ignore the genital mutilation of 6-year-old girls. The procedure is mainly carried out by so-called excisors or circumcisers with no medical qualifications. Girls experience chronic pain, serious bleeding or blood poisoning, and sometimes death after the procedure and often suffer complications during pregnancy, experience great pain during sexual intercourse, and suffer other gynaecological problems and traumas later in life.

The fact is, if men don't watch, there is very little money to support a professional female team and, even in amateur sports without men watching the events are never on TV. Therefore, most girls may prefer wearing skimpy outfits if that greatly increases the number of people watching.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I'm certainly aware the female genital mutilation exists and although not covered here, doesn't mean it isn't a serious topic. I just chose a subject I wanted to write about. If you would like to do a MyTake on it, I strongly encourage you to do so and bring more attention to it.

That's like saying we shouldn't talk on this site about men's insecurities with approaching women just because the much more serious topic of men's suicide rates being higher than women also exist. We can talk about either topic and be ok. We shouldn't dismiss one over the other or judge the person taking time to write an article because of other existing issues.

[DWornock]

Regardless, this is how it is. Almost all men are interested in sports. However, only a small percent of women are interested in sports and even when they are it is often because their husbands or boyfriends are interested.

On national teams women may make and win over an issue of clothes. However, in most female sports, if men don't watch, there are few fans attending the game, and the interest is low so there is no TV. Therefore, there is little money. Except for national and college teams, and often even then, few men are going to watch female sports if the females are not good looking and sexy in addition to being very good at the sport. For example, men watch professional sports, basketball, football, boxing, etc. However, unlike the NBA, there is very little money or TV viewers for the WNBA because very few men watch. And, why should they? Most of the women are big and tall, and that is not sexy. There is plenty of money and TV for figure skating because every one of the elite female skaters are beautiful and sexy. Now, women have the choice and they have the right to wear clothes that cover them from head to toe, but then far fewer men watch and there is far less money or TV viewers.

Now you can scream to high heaven and claim it shouldn't be that way but the market has a different opinion. Most female athletes choose money, and more fans and TV viewers over the principle "We have the right to be treated equal." They would rather be sexy, rich and famous then to be some unknown with little money standing up for equality.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Then find other ways to draw viewers that doesn't involve sexualizing your players. Invoke interesting and competitive rules that draw fans in. XFL for example was run by an idiot, but it most certainly drew in viewers in the beginning for being different.

[DWornock]

If that was possible, they would already be doing it. Besides, beautiful girls dress up to be notices. Otherwise, they would be spending so much money on cosmitics and brand label clothing. Nor, so much time and effort. It makes me wonder who is complaining. Certainly not men. It must be the plain and big ugly that don't like the competition from the highly desirable sexy beautiful girls.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Here is the difference, its about the choice. Im not saying women can't be sexy and dress in skimpy clothing, its when they are being forced to as part of the league that doesn't enforce the same rule to the men thats the problem.

[DWornock]

Women are men are different. That is why the never play in the same league. Therefore, they have different rules and both men and women that want to play must abide by the rules of the league that play in. You as an outsider, don't get to make the rules and rightfully so. You sound like one of the uninformed women that believe WNBA players should earn as much NBA players. However, they don't and they can't because the market has determined that the value of an NBA player is approximetely 100 times that of a WNBA player. It is different with fashion models because the market has determined that female fashion models are more valuable than men models. Nor, do they model the same clothes even though the occupations are very similar. Just like you, men model claim they are being discriminated against because they don't get to model the same clothes.

[DWornock]

Ignore the typos and read for content.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

If a guy wants to model the dresses and walk in heels then by all means let him.

I'm not getting into equal pay in a sports league because no, they don't bring in as much as the guys. I also don't have to support the idea the women playing need to whore themselves out just to play a sport they love just because men can't respect women for their athleticism and instead reduce them down to a sexual object.

[DWornock]

Even if they wanted to, the market is not going to pay men to model women's clothes. Men can dress in whatever they want but, if they want the money and they do, they must satisfy the market.

Women's sports are no different. If women want to play a sport because they love it, by all means let them. However, if they want the money, the glory, and the accolades and they do, they must satisfy the market and primarily that men.

NIL stands for name, image, and likeness. The definition of NIL is simple: It is the possibility of compensation paid to NCAA student-athletes to promote, partner, or represent brands. The mutually beneficial relationship is built off the athlete’s fame in order to grow a business. Previously, NCAA athletes were forbidden to profit off of their celebrity and fame.

Given her large social media following and high-profile team, Paige Bueckers could earn $1 million a year in endorsements while playing for the University of Connecticut. Refer to:
www.foxbusiness.com/.../paige-bueckers-could-make-1-million-a-year-in-college
She will not earn that money playing for UCONN or any major college if she is not willing to wear their uniform.

Since you feel so strongly about it, why don't you try telling her that she is being sexualized and that instead of playing basketball for UCONN, where she must wear their uniform, she should get together with friends and play the sport she loves at some gym or in her back yard? After all, she has the right to do that. However, I doubt that she will give you the time of day.

Or why don't you tell 15-year-old Kamila Valieva she should give her almost certain 2022 Olympic gold metal. After all, she is being sexualized since she is not wearing the same clothes as men skaters.

[DWornock]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQIntekPlfo

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I think you seem to be missing the point and that's fine I suppose.

If athletes stand up for themselves and refuse to participate unless change is made, like it did in the case of the handball team, then these leagues can continue to invoke the sexist rules. The leagues lose out on money too by not having good enough athletes to participate. If the athletes don't care then they won't say anything and just do what they do. These ones cared and stood up for a sexist policy. Good on them.

People who care about the sport will continue watching. People who watch strictly for T&A can go load up porn on their internet.

[DWornock]

No! My problem is that I failed to realize is that sports clothing is primarily based on safety and performance and, in team sports, the athletes may be required to wear the team logo and colors but, otherwise, the teams (not the individual players) usually choose whatever they wish. And, the girls are allowed to make further choices. In the NCAA cross country championship race Friday, the girls all wore their team's t-shirt but some chose to wear shorts and others chose to what looks like bikini bottoms. Men are constructed different so in the men's race all the men wore shorts.

In figure skating, girls can wear men's clothing. However, if they do, they likely will lose several points in the artistic voting and, usually a few points is the difference between gold a silver. In any event, most girls don't want to look like men.

In the sport you identified, most likely the media made a mountain out of a molehill which the media is prone to do. The teams made it an issue so they were allow to change their uniforms.

As I see it, the problem is not that occasionally girls may be required to wear clothing skimpy than they would prefer but that in much of the world, especially in Muslim countries, women are forced to cover from their head to their toes.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

See there you go again trying to say that one issue should be ignored just because it is worse elsewhere. Thats such a stupid philosophy.

"Hey, I shouldn't get my leaky pipes fixed because some country across the world is experiencing flash floods from bad thunderstorms and that's way worse than my pipes."

Do you hear yourself?

[exitseven]

Great MyTake. i agree with everything in it. I looked pretty hard to find something I could disagree with too.
People have to have control over their bodies. Maybe the only thing you did not address was how old is a fetus before it is not a fetus anymore. That question is above my pay grade but I know it is older than 6 weeks and less than ten minutes before the mother goes into labor.
I do not know who should decide this but I do know it should not be the Pope and it should not be Joe Biden.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I'm in the camp the baby being viable outside the womb even with some medical assistance. I would go as low as 23 weeks being the cut off unless a medical emergency. That gives the mother plenty of time to decide and anymore than that and it's just too far along for my tastes.

[exitseven]

damn, I was thinking 22 weeks.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Hey we are not far off at all lol. Let's meet in the middle. 22 weeks and 3 days.

[exitseven]

do I hear 3 and a half?

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Oooh that's tough Monty... um.. um... I'll take what's behind door number 1!

[exitseven]

@ez-bri-z I usually pick Door number 2.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

As long as it doesn't involve a fo key pulling a cart full of oranges then either is ok.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

"My body, my choice"
Obviously, they don't see it as only a woman's body when there's a kid involved.
Even non religious people want restrictions on it and things like no third trimester abortions seem reasonable. But abortion is not a good analogy to make for anything. In my eyes, it's a completely unique issue and has no easy answer.

"If you want to come back with "keep your legs closed", please refer back to the last paragraph about trying to legislate people having sex."
Cultural attitudes are not legislation, and culture is how a free society imparts responsibility and maintains order. It's highly preferential to the unfree alternatives.

"If you ACTUALLY want to stop it from happening, limit the social programs that pay people to have kids. Stop letting people treat children like paychecks from the government."
Absolutely, and to be fair I think the anti-abortion crowd does lean against that.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I'm fine with saying no 3rd trimester abortions because by then the child within can survive on it's own outside the womb (albeit with medical help).

Cultural attitudes need not apply here. It has a majority of support in the US although there are some differences in terms, but nearly 60% say it should be legal. So those trying to ban it are in the minority and of that minority, a majority of those are those spouting religion as their primary factor which then goes against church and state.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

Cultural attitudes always apply, and there's more of a need for them to apply with increasing freedom.

Majority of support doesn't just mean everything is good. There's a difference between democracy and tyranny of the majority. Given the divisiveness of the issue, it's hard to have a democratic solution.

People wanting it for that reason doesn't go against church and state unless the implementation of a law cites that as a reason. It can be implemented without any need for religious reasoning.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

They are only pushing it for that reason, it still makes it that reason.

[AllThatSweetJazz]

They're allowed to have that reason for disliking it though. Having that reason doesn't make it church and state.

[jasco]

I understand why women think the way they do. It's not fair for many reasons so I do hope they get equality. My question is what happens next? Do you really think that women will simply stop with that? A lot of women out their are power hungry and want more than equality. Honestly I want equality of opportunity and i gladly support that movement. Feminism is confusing because theirs so many waves of it and honestly I rather just watch. In terms of sports cloths should be fitted for both genders. As for the equal pay, I don't believe that exist. Women basketball teams aren't bad its just due to management, that's why they don't get any money plus they haven't been on nearly as long as the NBA. Plus their were many key figures in the NBA that made it amazing along with growing stock markets and investments. Their are other things but I still want equality. I don't know about abortion

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Well the way I see it, feminists like myself, once we actually do have equality, need to take the fight up against other women who are trying to get more than guys. The fight is for equality not for control.

[jasco]

I see well than other than that thank you

[t-8900]

@ez-bri-z I believe you are sincere and there are plenty of good and honest women out there like yourself pushing this message but... I wonder if like so many other groups the money will be too good to give up and then a hate group is the next step. I really hope that's not the case. But when you see these posts by girls on here like "in 10 years we won't need no man to have babies" or some such like men are just replaceable garbage.

So many guys are good, honest, men with big hearts that are lonely too. Some fall into the same mindset as those women and become hateful. But God help us all if we have some sort of warped egalitarian society that literally believes that men are just expendable, undesirable. Think of the women who abort their own babies just for being boys... like WHAT? So this isn't just some "what if" we see that very real hatred there. I want a wife a children so badly, that has always been my dream. But at the same time I fear for the world my son (s) would be stepping into tbh...

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Listen i don't want that society either but it already exists the other way around. Girls are seen as a burden and aborted or abandoned. I'm not saying it's a good idea to go the other way around, but before we start worrying about the what ifs, let's fix the existing issues we already face.

If we have equality and you get greedy women trying to then take over and dominate men, then consider me one of the allies in the fight for equality the other way.

[t-8900]

@ez-bri-z as a Christian all live has the same level of intrinsic value. I am against abortion, you know that. I know that deep down if it meant ME raising a random child or it being aborted I'd raise that random child as my own. I dont think women should be beneath men and I would like to see actual, real, mutual cooperation. I just dont see it happening as it stands. And you could say it didn't stand in the past either. But I've never heard of girls getting aborted in the USA for being girls? I know like in India and China and stuff but we dont have dominion over that part of the world so can't do much about it other than send cells into the country to preach for it.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Feminism isn't just a fight for women here in the US. It is a fight for women everywhere.

[t-8900]

@ez-bri-z I agree with you. But when you are marching demanding change here you got people like Xi going, "hahaha look at stoopid merican men letting stoopid merican women talk bad! haha stoopid mericans!"

You get my meaning? Those people dont care. They dont care about our morals and ethics. They kill people all the time. Take em out back and shoot em, or rape them, or harvest their organs. And then you have North Korea. WOW talk about brutality to women. Did you know all the women in their military are sexed in and forced to serve? All their soldiers are barely ever fed and many starve or die from diseases. The Kim men have places with women that have to cater to their every whim. IN FACT did you know that some of these women work 365 days a year all over the country to just be visited once by Jung-Un and then have to have sex with him on that night? That's literally their whole purpose for existence over there. Think about it. Think about the insanity you are trying to get through to. Honestly without military intervention (not worth it by the way) I dont see it changing in our life times. But here's hoping!

[Ez-Bri-Z]

The more attention we bring to it the better. Throwing our hands up and saying "they are too crazy to do something about" doesn't solve the issue.

[t-8900]

No that's not my point. But I think issues need to be fixed here in our ailing society before we start worrying about another. But that's I suppose a philosophical difference on tactics

[ZackBan]

Intersting my take I appreciate all the effort you put in writing it. You're as insightful as ever.
Now I personally disagree with most of the stuff you said but that's alright I won't make counter arguments and enter endless debates I'll just say that: most things you consider to be wins came at a price that women and especially the new generation will have to pay for

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I will just say I respectfully disagree, but thank you so much for reading!

[RationalMale]

We're in a day and age where women movie writers will happily talk about staring at men's bulges or chests in movies and screech with fury over attractive women in movies who dress revealing. We're in a day and age where women have innumerable ways they make money off their looks and attractiveness thanks to thirsty guys who are in a dating market that extremely disadvantages them.

Cry me a river.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

You do realize that the world isn't just revolving around 1st world countries yeah? Cool.

Just bringing up a few examples of the MANY every day things we experience. Besides, you bring up selling sex as if it were new. Its literally called the world's oldest profession for a reason.

Now go stand outside while the adults talk.

[RationalMale]

No one cares anymore because they realize the blatant hypocrisy and how so called "equality" is simply a push for special privileges when it comes to feminism. Simple example is women want to talk about rights when it comes to kids and abortion but would soil themselves with outrage if they were held to the same standards men are.

And outside first world countries? The same people who claim to want more "rights" for women in the USA are the ones who want to import more barbarism from third world nations.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Ah the abortion topic. Tell you what bruh, you find a way to start carrying the kid in your body so equality can be achieved on that front and then you can have a say.

[Xylem1992]

You're chasing a fallacy here. Women and men are different. Their strengths and weaknesses are different. So equality between the two is meaningless.

A fair balance between the two is what women should be shooting for. And "some" of them are. Slowly but surely positive changes are coming. Main factor slowing the whole thing down, well, is women; Women who are going for unrealistic goals, radical changes, or downright conducting scorched ground tactics on men.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

No I'm not, you are mistaking equality for mirror images. Of course men and women have differences. Equality says we all get a fair chance at doing the same tasks and living how we want regardless of them. It means not excluding men from typical female roles because of an inherent distrust of men around children. It means not excluding women from strength based jobs simply for being women.

[Xylem1992]

Well you say that here, but what we see is entirely different. For example: the whole US women's soccer team situation. So I'd say it's better to use the correct word. Equal means "being the same". Men and women are not the same. Fair means "treating people equally without favouritism or discrimination". Fair sounds like a much more positive and accurate word for this movement. Right? Right?

Wrong. The majority of the feminist movement do want the counter-attacking sting of "equality". For the reasons that are beyond me, they're not chasing fair, they're looking to chop away some of the men rights to add to their own (Again US women's soccer team is a good example). And that's why they're met with resistance. Simple really.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Wrong again unfortunately. What you hear and take as the gospel of feminism is a small minority of REALLY vocal women (and some men) who absolutely want a female led society with men in subjugation.

Say it with me, "those women are dumb and selfish."

The actual point is just equality from both sides. Women want equal pay for equal work. That's not an unreasonable demand. These women asked to not be overly sexualized with a uniform that was not applied equally to the men. That again is not unreasonable.

[Xylem1992]

Right. Small minority. Muslims extremists say the same thing: "Those who behead their enemies in 21st century are a small minority"
If there's a difference among feminists, it has to made known. I as an observer dont see it

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Observe better? I really don't know what else to tell you.

[Xylem1992]

No dear, of course you don't.
That's you proving there are different feminist belief systems. Sound logical argument that it was, I'm done with this discussion

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Ok? Thanks for the conversation I guess. When you figure it out and see that it's more than just the superficial vocal radicals that make up any movement, then I'll be here to talk more. Until then, take care.

[DaveToo]

I've been up since 4:30 a. m. so if I don't make any sense with my comments, just chalk it up to that.
If you're a woman and oppose women getting abortions, then don't get one.
If you're an older woman past your childbearing age and oppose women getting an abortion, please line up behind the men who oppose women getting abortions.
Shut the fuck up. It's none of your business, and it doesn't affect you.

[PuNishant]

We human are born with such biased. We are born out of Female but never think twice before calling all women slut..
But there are some visionary people who are not such miserable creatures.
If you want to change baised in society. Start it with your home. Teach your boy to respect all.

[Anonymous]

Great mytake
I'm not a feminist but if someone wants to harass or do worse to a woman in my presence they'll soon be used to the taste of shoe polish and blood with a side of teeth

That's not about me being a feminist that's just satisfying my own bloodlust

[Dvchill]

Nah let her handle it on her own… if u want equality… that is what I would do to a guy… now if hand start flying yeah step in. But if it is just “mean or inappropriate words” see how she handles it… don’t step over her to make yourself feel all manly

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Yeah, usually verbally i can handle my own. Im not worried about what they say. Nobody should be hitting anyone and unless a guy is threatening my family I'm not going to engage physically, but I was raised that if a girl initiates a fight and hits a guy first then you treat her like an equal in that fight (oddly enough it was the only equality my dad believed in). If I'm minding my own business and this guy comes at me? Yeah, ok might appreciate some help then lol

[Opinion Owner]

I meant physical harassment but I just like the bloodlust you know like treating a tibia like a plank fit for the fire, full-force stomp with a DM will shatter either

[AviatorTom]

No two people are equals. We each have our own individual strengths and weaknesses. Having said that, we all should have equal opportunity, to be and do who we want to be, if we have the necessary skill set and qualifications to do that.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Yeah and I think that's where people misinterpret the message. When I say equals, I don't mean carbon copies. I just mean, I shouldn't be eliminated from a job just because it might be easier for someone else to do it because of their gender.

[AviatorTom]

Agreed. Gender should not be a determining factor. But if you have two similarly qualified people for a job, but the man has 5 years experience while the woman has 2 years, there should be nothing wrong with selecting the man who has more experience. That's not gender discrimination, though some people will complain that it is.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Even that can be fine tuned. 5 years experience but lower performance scores over a woman with 2 years experience with exemplary scores could be considered gender discrimination though

[AviatorTom]

Yes it would. In the example I gave, that's why I called them "similarly qualified", implying that their previous performances are similar.

[jshm2]

Meh,

Equality is unachievable, when you have race issues and class issues among others making the water choppy.

"Love this first world problems, whinging whilst the Western World straight up murders Blacks without trial. "

[Ez-Bri-Z]

We can't fix one because others exist? That makes no sense. We try and fix them all.

[Babygirl_S]

Baggy clothes are masculine but I don't understand why they weren't allowed to cover up more. Not all women are comfortable wearing skimpy clothes.

[Iknowbestgirls]

@Ez-Bri-Z call me perverted if you want because I am NGL. But as far as the Norwegian handball team goes, no one wants to see guys junk in tight shorts but everyone (yes even girls) love seeing girls in tight shorts!

[Anonymous]

I agree completely. Excellent mytake. ❤
I'm a feminist male myself and let me tell you, those fucking pigs have gone too far!!
Those pieces of shit men have fucking oppressed the shit out of women for too long.
Give it to them fuckers!! I
Take everything from those shit bag pricks trying to see women play sports in for fitting uniforms.
Those fucking scumbag, stupid, shit pile motherfuckers!!!

[JackDonner]

You think like me, I'm a feminist man as well.
I don't want to see women play handball, and I certainly understand that abortion is a wonderful invention that was meant to be a natural right for all.
Fuck those guys who act all sexist and shit. I hope they get run over by a bus full of women.
Sexist men are just gobs of shit who did nothing to make life good for anyone.
Hope their fucking houses burn down and they shit themselves.
It's gone on long enough.
WOMAN POWER!!!

[Opinion Owner]

@JackDonner
Well Jack, I'm glad we're on the same page.
I don't think it's enough though. Men have done NOTHING but make women's lives MISERABLE since the cave man days. I think those fucking loser men are due for a shit storm of equality.
Who the fuck do those cock sucking men think they are?
Fuck equality, I'm for woman supremacy.
It's time that men wear the little shorts and get groped, the fucking jerks.
Grope them pricks and see how they like it.

[loves2learn]

100% adults need to have autonomy over their own bodies. Good take, thank you for sharing.

[Mossberg500]

There is no equality in nature. There's difference.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

Cool. I'll remember that if I am reincarnated as a deer.

We are also capable of rational thought. Am I going to be as strong as you? Probably not. Doesn't mean I can't do the same job; I just have to find other ways to accomplish the same task. Equality just says I am not eliminated from trying just because I am not as strong as you.

[Mossberg500]

Firstly your sarcasm doesn't really land unless you actually believe in reincarnation and the retention of memory from past lives lol.

You are capable but certainly not "as capable." If we're WM vs WW, not in body nor mind. Women are driven more by emotion than rationale collective on average.

This comes down to the whole leftist Dogma of the stronger/wealthier/smarter should be inclusive to those who aren't.

Sure you could do my job, it would just take you a few years to do what I can do well from the first week. We can pretend away nature but it will still always be there. And trust me you don't want to do my job anyway I think I'm developing carpel tunnel (sp?)

[Ez-Bri-Z]

I dont know what your job is but hey, working with software developers and reading/writing scripts and coding while also talking 6 hours a day doing trainings to a user base doesn't do any favors to your hands or your voice.

[Mossberg500]

So your argument for 'total equality' is using your brain? Well your notion of complete equality isn't a great start for your 'using your brain' on a socio-political scale. Any individual can learn to do things, as well as... again I say "individual" can break stereotypes (which is really a dirty word for collective profiling, which has also become a dirty word)

Who dominates the specific field you're talking about though? Computer tech, software and hardware. Pretty sure in the West it's still nerdy white men.

Myself, I make move and ship heavy car parts for a company called Borg Warner, I am about to go to work for night 10 in a row. And yes there are women at he plant, they mostly take up the barking orders positions, but there's a handful of younger little more butch types that can in fact do what I do. In fact, it was a woman who trained me. However, generally speaking women don't do this type of work, even if it's not to hard/taxing for them (which is usually the case) they wouldn't choose to do it if they had limited resources for education.

Yet, I see women server's, and retail workers every where I go. And I don't tend to bitch about there not being enough men in restaurant business and/or retail. I'd rather concern myself with the oppression of my own people, but particularly White males, when it comes to socio-politics. You know, the result of your feminism. I see it every day. Racial and Gender quota's and the business's like this one who fill roles impractically to fit this fairy tale world, then turn around and complain about not "making production." And as much as I'd like to I can't go up and slap the CEO's and say "Listen you moron..." Similar to how I'd start to engage the average feminist and/or race traitor.

[Alphonsolawa]

I'm so confused , Doesn't hand ball have multiple uniforms from revealing to non revealing?

[Ez-Bri-Z]

What you saw in the screen was what they had to wear, but not anymopre

[Alphonsolawa]

No , Hand ball had multiple uniforms for women. I specifically remember Muslim women wearing completely non revealing uniform (just like men) and playing hand ball, or was it beach ball. I'm not sure there is even a difference.

[Ez-Bri-Z]

That was the olympics, this is an independent league

[genericname85]

it's not a step to equality. it's a step to cooptation. not a fan of it.