Is it sexual harassment if your guy friend touches you in your sleep?

[Anonymous]

I'm asking for a friend. I wanted to tell the story and see if I'm exaggerating or if this is person is actually showing predator behavior.
So my close friend M, met this guy B (also a close friend of mine) a couple of years ago. They were best friends for a year and then they started an on and off relationship. Last summer, B introduced us to his childhood friend H. We became friends with H and we'd all hangout every now and then. M was good friends with him since he was her boyfriend's closest bud. Then a couple of weeks ago, she and B had a huge fight and broke up. And M was really devastated, constantly crying and unable to sleep.
During those 2 weeks, H was there for her. He would listen to her and hug her as she cried. He'd tell her not to talk to B ever again and that he was an as*hole (reminder: this is his childhood friend he's talking about). He told her not to trust anyone and started throwing shady remarks about all of our friends (he even insinuated that something might be going on by the way me and B).
Then a few days ago, we spent the night at her house, drinking and trying to cheer her up. She had too much to drink and ended up crying as we went to bed and H went to her side, hugging her and trying to get her to sleep. We didn't think much of it and all went to bed. The next day M told me that he kissed her and that she responded at first but then stopped him once she realized what was going on. She confronted him and he apologised and blamed it on the alcohol. (I had only one glass of wine that night and I can guarantee she was wasted and he wasn't).
Two days later, we threw another gathering of sorts and there wasn't space for everyone to sleep so H slept in her bed again. Today she told me that although she'd kept space between them when they slept, she ended up waking up in the middle of the night to him hugging her tightly and touching her breast through her shirt. She was too shocked to respond and pretended to sleep but was terrified.

[MrOracle]

On one hand, yes, that's technically sexual assault, at least in the US.

On the other hand, on a practical level, if you do not want to be physically touched, YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS SLEEPING IN THE SAME BED WITH SOMEONE OF THE OPPOSITE SEX. That's like putting a bunch of 10-year-old boys in charge of a candy store unsupervised and expecting nothing to be eaten. You'd have to be completely out of your mind and completely naïve and unaware of human behavior NOT to expect to be touched like that when you're sleeping in a man's bed with him.

Men, and ESPECIALLY teen and college-age boys, want sex in much the same way as you'd want food if I locked you in a room for a week with no food - only water to drink. You would be RAVENOUSLY hungry and practically unable to think about anything else, right? That is EVERY YOUNG ADULT MALE on the planet, except what they hunger for is SEX. If you don't KNOW that and don't act accordingly, then you're going to make very foolish and dangerous decisions, like, say, sleeping in a guy's bed with him and not expecting to be touched or groped. Would you be shocked if a starving person stole food, regardless of whether theft is illegal? Of course not. You'd be shocked if they didn't. The same assumption should be made of men.

Do you know the story of the man who was in love with lions, and how beautiful they were and how graceful and powerful and how much they were like a big playful housecat? And how he'd got to pet a lion at a zoo (with a trainer present and right after they'd fed it well and it was in a "food coma")? And so, a few years later, he booked a trip to Africa and drove himself out into the wild with his video camera to film himself playing with the friendly lions in their native habitat, just like he did at the zoo.

Obviously, those lions killed and ate him, and when his family reported him overdue, and officials eventually found his vehicle and his camera, his family were given the video of him being eaten by the lions - BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT LIONS DO. That's their nature.

A young man's nature is to be ravenously hungry for sex, and if you put an attractive young woman in his bed, sexual stuff is GOING to happen, right or wrong. Most people aren't foolish enough to go to Africa to pet the lions, and most girls aren't foolish enough to climb in bed with a guy as "just friends" - but some do, and it often doesn't go well for them.

I'm not excusing the guy's behavior - it was wrong, and technically illegal, but no DA would prosecute when the girl willingly climbed into his bed with him. That's because common sense would tell you that being touched in that situation is a LIKELY outcome.

[Asker]

I get your point although I do have a problem with the whole "boys will be boys" narrative. And the issue here is not of a legal nature, she's not going to press charges and she doesn't want people to know about this because she considers him a friend.
And again, this wasn't some random guy she got in bed with. We've known him for a year, he's her ex' childhood friend, we've hungout together many many times and he's pretty much part if our clique (even if I'm not as close to him as I am to her or to B). The majority of M's friends are guys, and she's slept in the same bed as them multiple times before in the past but this is the first time something like this happens to her. And bear in mind, they weren't alone in the room during both times.

[MrOracle]

None of that matters. She was foolish each and every time she got in bed with a guy she wasn't wanting sexual things from. Rather, she was LUCKY that those other guys managed to restrain themselves - surprisingly lucky in fact. She's like a woman who'd been to Africa several times before and successfully pet the lions without being eaten, and thought she could do so forever. It was only a matter of time before things went badly.

I cannot stress it enough: if you don't want a guy to touch you sexually, you have no business sharing a bed with him. PERIOD. To think otherwise is to completely disregard men's nature and to tempt fate - and it's only a matter of time before you lose.

[Bluemax]

Shouldn't a young man also be thinking, "You know, if I'm going to be tempted to touch her, I shouldn't get into bed with her?"

I get what your saying and agree with a lot of it, but the onus isn't entirely on the girl.

[Grond21]

This is classic narcissistic manipulation. He's trying to isolate her, from all of her support system by creating rumors and lies about all of her friends. Then the more isolated she is, the more he can make her feel like he is the only option for her. And then he can force her to depend on him and him alone. And then he can do what he wants with her.

It just seems like he has gotten greedy and is moving too fast to sexually. But for the rest of it? This is such a major red flag that if this was someone I was advising for psychological help, I would tell them to cut this person out of their life forever. It's that dangerous

[Asker]

Thank you for sharing your opinion. The serious red flag for me was when she started mentioning how he was talking sh*t about us and putting ideas in her head. The touching thing is bad enough, but coupled with the manipulation? I can't help but be weary of him. I hope she sees that and doesn't let all of this slide...

[Grond21]

I had the same thought. It was once he started tearing you all down and destroying her support system that the narcissistic manipulation came into play. The sexual abuse is awful on its own, but if you psychologically weak in a person before you do it then it just compounds the whole thing

[xHoneyxBeex]

It sounds like sexual assault, yes, and definitely indicative of predatory behavior. It's never okay to touch someone like that without their consent and since your friend was asleep, she obviously did not give him permission to touch her. I would advise your friend to not be alone with this person at all anymore. He sounds like a major creep who can't be trusted.

[Asker]

Thank you for sharing your opinion. And as I mentioned to another user, they weren't completely alone both times. We were all sleeping in the same room so that makes me wonder what he'd do if we weren't...

[sadMeester]

Maybe he was asleep too? Some people cuddle in their sleep. My little sis who's about 11 years younger than me sleep walked to cuddle me when she was about 4

[Asker]

No he wasn't. He was touching her all over so she's pretty sure he was awake. At first she thought it was innocent but then he started touching her breasts and that's when her suspicions were confirmed...

[sadMeester]

Then yes he's creepy. Even guys who do that might be ok and just made a mistake, however the risk he'd be willing to do something worse seems to great.

It sounds like he was grooming her and got impatient about his reward.

[Asker]

Exactly, and both times they weren't alone in the room. I was there along with another friend. Another detail I forgot to mention, the first time when he kissed her, she told him to stop and that he was going to wake us. He said 'f*ck them* and continued and so she had to push him and tell him that they needed to talk about this in the kitchen.

[sadMeester]

I'd like to amend my previous statement. This guy shouldn't be given a chance. He doesn't take hints and consent (or lack of) clearly isn't an issue for him. If he isn't dangerous now he will be

[Maxamillion61]

This may depend on your present relationship with each other. Do both of you feel liberal & accept the others contact when both are awake & attentive to each other or do you limit his contact of touching you at certain times & places.. Would you do the same to them if they were asleep?

[Asker]

Of course not. There's such a thing as consent. The way I see it, he doesn't have the guts to make a move when she's awake and knows she only sees him as a friend (she told him that nothing can happen the night he kissed her) and so he's searching for the opportunity when she has her guard down to go at it.

[Maxamillion61]

LOL... this could be compared to many situations you've heard about when dentists have their patients under anesthesia and they are out cold but to the dentist this is the perfect time to go to town, have fun till his hearts content. Does the term: "Date Rape" ring a bell or an idea here? Suddenly the room temperature here rose about 10 degrees lol.

[OddBeMe]

Yes, that’s bad. Perhaps forgiveable depending on age. But he needs to seek forgiveness.

[Asker]

He's 22, I think he's old enough to know what he's doing. Question is, is he really a cunning predator or is he simply really ignorant?

[OddBeMe]

If you’re not sure, law enforcement should get involved. Other girl’s lives are at stake.

[Liam_Hayden]

Technically sexual assault, but good luck getting a prosecutor to take a he said she said case like this where the girl voluntarily slept in his bed.

[Asker]

That's not the issue here. She's not even convinced that what he's done is seriously wrong. The dude looks innocent and we've known him for a year. I'm trying to get her to see that he's trying to use her since she's vulnerable at this point. He acts all cool and friendly when she's sober and once she gets drunk or falls asleep, he takes advantage of the situation. She fails to see that and keeps making excuses for him.

[ColHathi]

Dunno about sexual assault or harassment, but I could certainly accept it as such. Either way he's crossing a big line.

[R3DthatDude]

How did you find out about the incident? Did she tell you or did you catch them?

[Asker]

The night of the kiss, I thought I heard something and was going to ask her about it in the morning but she mentioned it by herself. The second time, I was asleep and had to rush to work in the morning. We didn't talk for a few days but when we met yesterday she told me about it. She was hesitant and kinda ashamed of what happened.

[The_unknown_memer]

Damn right that's sexual assault, I don't care how minor it is , you have to either confront him or report him

[Anonymous]

Thats what happens when you sleep with someone. He is going to think that he has a chance

[Asker]

This wasn't a random dude. We've known the guy for a year and she considers him a good friend. They've slept in the same bed before and nothing happened. Plus he's her ex's best friend, you wouldn't expect him to do sh*t like this.

[Opinion Owner]

You described that he was trying to win her over, didn't you? Why are you acting surprised that he liked her?

[Asker]

The thing is, when she confronted him the night he kissed her and asked if he had feelings for her, he denied it, blamed it on the alcohol and apologized, promised it wouldn't happen again. And then he's touching her in her sleep... I don't see how such behaviour can be considered winning someone over. If he truly cared about her, he would've confessed, or at least respected her enough not to do something like that. Would you molest the person you like in their sleep when they're vulnerable and coming to you because they're heartbroken over someone else?

[Opinion Owner]

Obviously he likes her and chickened out when she asked him

[Asker]

You're kind of missing the point here... Whether he likes her not, he shouldn't touch her without her consent. Especially not when she's grieving and turning to him for support or when she's sleeping obliviously..

[Anonymous]

It is sexual assault, yes.

[Anonymous]

If ur sleeping in the same bed as a girl her breasts r open season end of story, if she doesn’t wanna sleep in the same bed with him tell him that ffs.

[Asker]

Ever heard of a little crazy thing called "consent"?

[Opinion Owner]

yeah but this isn't penetration, this is sleeping, and breasts are soft and squishy like pillows. If you don't wanna be cuddled gtfo the bed

[andrewgeheim]

That there wasn't penetration means it wasn't "assault by penetration" which carries a longer sentence. Consent was still necessary if the touching of other person was what a reasonable person would consider to be "sexual"; absence of consent in those circumstances would be sexual assault. Courts believe that sleeping people cannot consent. As far as I'm aware, no-one has ever successfully defended a sexual assault charge on the grounds that the touching was not sexual because their intention was to commandeer an acquaintance's breast as a pillow while she herself slept, but I imagine such cases probably don't get as far as a court due to lack of evidence.

[Anonymous]

tldr but yes it's sexual assault

[Anonymous]

Yes.